Alex,
Perhaps you're right. My primary concern is that I think someone needs to
have the authority to reject low-quality changes (for example, those
without tests. This *could* be me, but I would like to hand this proposed
pilot project off to someone else and (hopefully) move on to coach a
Hi Dane,
Thanks for your reply. In a perfect world, I would have the time to do all
of those things, unfortunately, the best I can offer is my experience and
whatever coding time I have left over. Being an adult is a drag sometimes.
I don't have time to learn a new application (and development
Hi Dane,
I didn't take it hostilely :) And I didn't mean to say I was busier than
anyone else; I'm just a lot busier than I used to be I suppose. Let's talk
sometime. Email me off the list and we'll sort it out. With that, I think
we can conclude this thread.
Have a good night everyone,
Craig
Albert
We don't need to exaggerate. Though TDD is, indeed, a development
methodology, it is not supposed to completely change the way everyone works.
Just consider that writing a good test takes about 10 minutes, and that
each developer writes one or two tests for new stuff they add (or the old
I have never heard a project die because they decided to move to TDD. And
I heard about lots of hits on the matter.
This. I've heard (and witnessed) a lot of projects drop their defect
percentage from 20% to 3%. A lot of new-to-TDD developers don't like it at
first because it feels slower,
So if I'm not mistaken, TDD requires you to write tests before
implementing something.
This might work well for teams with enough developers that don't have
to rely on volunteers and drive-by contributors, but I don't see this
working out for elementary, at least not at this point.
Many
Hmm, that's a good point. While the barrier to entry is very high right
now, we could move some of that difficulty from things like simple
installation (I can't remember the last time following the installation
instructions yielded a successful build/install) to things that help
improve our
But yes, GUI automatic tests are notoriously much harder to automate
fully, but you can often test a basic level automatically.
On 2013-08-21 22:54, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote:
You can do that using behaviour driven testing tools. For example in python
webdevelopment I use pytest and pytest-bdd
What do you think of giving Footnote some love? I think it is currently
unmaintained (need to verify that), it's conceptually a rather simple
application but offers a good set of practices for TDD/ writing tests.
We need to verify first of course what the intentions of the current owner are,
I'm not opposed; however, every time I've delved into Elementary
development, I've found myself fighting too many tertiary fires before I'm
able to get any real work done (usually it's chasing down one obscure
environment issue or another). So basically, I would like someone who is
competent at
So say this code for example:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-apps/pantheon-terminal/trunk/view/head:/src/TerminalWidget.vala#L37
Sometimes we have some issues with ReGex (see
https://code.launchpad.net/~voldyman/pantheon-terminal/colon-fixed/+merge/180735
).
Is that the kind of thing
Correct.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 11:27 AM, David Gomes da...@elementaryos.orgwrote:
So say this code for example:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-apps/pantheon-terminal/trunk/view/head:/src/TerminalWidget.vala#L37
Sometimes we have some issues with ReGex (see
So if I understand correctly, in TDD there is a specific bit of code (lets
call it C) that you build a test for. Then, instead of using the
application and trying to trigger code C, you invoke the test which
directly calls code C and then reports a result based on whatever input you
gave it,
Hi Munchor,
A contribution / bug fixing step by step guide is needed at the developers
site. There was a .pdf before the new site change, but now it is impossible
to find.
The problem with the old guide is that it encouraged to create your own
branch instead of using the
I'll work on it, so far we only have this I made:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19899464/reviewstutorial.html
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Albert Palacios optimi...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Munchor,
A contribution / bug fixing step by step guide is needed at the developers
site. There
Also,
Adding easy tips into the guide, such as teaching on how to install project
dependencies:
sudo apt-get build-dep wingpanel
Or how to make a merge or one push, can save several hours to
volunteers trying to help.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 7:05 PM, David Gomes da...@elementaryos.org wrote:
This is cool and important, but I don't think it should stop the discussion
on test driven development. Perhaps this could be a separate thread? It
doesn't sound as though anyone is opposed to TDD, so can we confirm that?
And if no one is opposed, how can we proceed? Can we start some kind of a
Hi Craig and Gufran,
I don't agree with TDD, and making a committee. Can you prove that there
will be huge benefits in time/resources? Can you prove that there will be
less bugs? (looks like that if tests are not right, bugs will populate
equally). Can you prove that creating, modifying and
Hi Albert,
First off, I agree with you that TDD will add extra efforts and
complexities. Yes I agree that there will be more tools to know and
maintain and Yes, there is no guarantee that TDD will eliminate all bugs.
In fact, here is a video worth watching http://vimeo.com/68375232
Now, I'm
Hi Albert,
Thanks for your response, you asked a lot of great questions. In addition
to Gufran's earlier response.
Can you prove that there will be huge benefits in time/resources?
Well, that depends on what you consider proof. In the spring, my company
paid several thousand dollars to send
Hello,
I posted the following message on Google Plus yesterday, but it occurred to
me that the weekend may not be prime time for checking that social network.
I think this message is pretty important, so I want to post it again here:
(I apologize in advance for its length)
Congratulations to all
I believe Dan wanted to release Luna+1 AKA Isis at around the same time as
Ubuntu 14.04
On Aug 18, 2013 6:41 PM, Craig webe...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I posted the following message on Google Plus yesterday, but it occurred
to me that the weekend may not be prime time for checking that social
Which is barely, if at all, relevant to what Craig wrote about.
On 2013-08-18 19:44, A. Xylon V. wrote:
I believe Dan wanted to release Luna+1 AKA Isis at around the same time as
Ubuntu 14.04
On Aug 18, 2013 6:41 PM, Craig webe...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip legit worries about the maximum
Ok, I have not added a single line of code to elementary yet, and gave some
decent amount of headache to real devs around here. I have though
participated in development of many products, small and large, and so here
it goes.
TDD in its pure form requires having tests written and ready before the
Guys, Here is a conversation I and Craig had a while ago. The mail was
dispatched to Craig's personal inbox by mistake.
Here it is
*ME:*
*
*
I have read the book *How google tests softwares* and not to say that TDD
is a great tool to hit on both productivity and maintenance but I
personally think
Hi Craig,
first of all, I'd like to thank you for bringing up unit tests and TDD
from time to time, because I really think it'll be necessary in the
future, and the sooner we get this done, the more time we'll save in
the long run.
I'd like to offer some help as to how to implement unit
This, this and this.
And also many of the developers like me aren't really experienced with TDD
and will have to take some time to study, learn and adapt to it. You can't
just come here and tell developers, many of whom inexperienced young
amateur programmers, to start using TDDs. Take me, for
David,
I understand and appreciate the difficulty; however, I've had exactly zero
questions about TDD. Like I said in the original post, I'm happy to answer
any questions you may have.
Please take me up on that offer any time.
Thanks,
Craig
On Aug 18, 2013 6:57 PM, David Gomes
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