Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO

2023-02-04 Thread Max Nikulin
On 02/02/2023 16:37, Heinz Tuechler wrote: tomas wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 02.02.2023 09:33: On Thu, Feb 02, 2023 at 08:45:51AM +0100, Heinz Tuechler wrote: It seems to me that this shows the time zone I selected at set up of the computer, in my case Europe/Berlin. Using package lutz in R

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda)

2023-02-02 Thread Ihor Radchenko
Max Nikulin writes: >> Because `encode-time' accepts POSIX TZ as argument. So, may as well. >> Note that Etc/GMT-8 is also accepted as POSIX TZ. > > "May" does not assume "should". It will be easier to implement POSIX TZ compared to limiting it to TZDB. We have no way to know if a given string

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda)

2023-02-02 Thread Max Nikulin
On 02/02/2023 15:34, Ihor Radchenko wrote: Max Nikulin writes: Is there a strong reason to support POSIX TZ? Time zones with fixed offsets are available as e.g. Etc/GMT-8 (unfortunately inverted sign as well). Because `encode-time' accepts POSIX TZ as argument. So, may as well. Note that

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO

2023-02-02 Thread Heinz Tuechler
to...@tuxteam.de wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 02.02.2023 09:33: On Thu, Feb 02, 2023 at 08:45:51AM +0100, Heinz Tuechler wrote: Max Nikulin wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 02.02.2023 04:22: On 02/02/2023 04:57, Heinz Tuechler wrote: My impression is that many of non experts like me don't know in

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info

2023-02-02 Thread Ihor Radchenko
Samuel Wales writes: > perhaps some cities are not listed? what is one supposed to do then? > find a city with equivalent geography and tz policy? Time zones have nothing to do with cities. The same city may have multiple time zones in some cases. You just need to know that current time zone

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info

2023-02-02 Thread Ihor Radchenko
Heinz Tuechler writes: > Same for me, I usually see ISO offset. Further, I am used to exchange > time designations (CET, EST, PDT,...) instead of [continent/city] > timezone names. While I see a push towards using time zone abbreviations, we should not make them a part of the syntax. If we

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda)

2023-02-02 Thread Ihor Radchenko
Max Nikulin writes: > On 01/02/2023 20:26, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >> >> There is potential confusion coming from the different interpretations >> of the time zone offsets used in ISO8601 and POSIX TZ specs: > > Ihor, I am sorry that I did not reply to your early question. > > Is there a strong

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO

2023-02-02 Thread tomas
On Thu, Feb 02, 2023 at 08:45:51AM +0100, Heinz Tuechler wrote: > Max Nikulin wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 02.02.2023 04:22: > > On 02/02/2023 04:57, Heinz Tuechler wrote: > > > My impression is that many of non experts like me don't > > > know in which time zone they are living. > > > > For you

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO

2023-02-01 Thread Heinz Tuechler
Max Nikulin wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 02.02.2023 04:22: On 02/02/2023 04:57, Heinz Tuechler wrote: My impression is that many of non experts like me don't know in which time zone they are living. For you own time zone: Open Development tools in a browser ([F12]), switch to console, type

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info

2023-02-01 Thread tomas
On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 10:57:47PM +0100, Heinz Tuechler wrote: > to...@tuxteam.de wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 01.02.2023 14:51: [...] > > This is unfortunate indeed. I'd tend to pick one and not to allow > > both, out of fear of counfusion. And if I had to pick one, I'd pick > > ISO [...] >

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info

2023-02-01 Thread Max Nikulin
On 02/02/2023 04:57, Heinz Tuechler wrote: My impression is that many of non experts like me don't know in which time zone they are living. For you own time zone: Open Development tools in a browser ([F12]), switch to console, type new Intl.DateTimeFormat().resolvedOptions().timeZone

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info

2023-02-01 Thread Samuel Wales
perhaps some cities are not listed? what is one supposed to do then? find a city with equivalent geography and tz policy? On 2/1/23, Heinz Tuechler wrote: > to...@tuxteam.de wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 01.02.2023 14:51: >> On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 01:26:36PM +, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >>> [

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info

2023-02-01 Thread Heinz Tuechler
to...@tuxteam.de wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 01.02.2023 14:51: On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 01:26:36PM +, Ihor Radchenko wrote: [ adding Org ML back to CC ] Christian Moe writes: Note, however, that because we are conforming to POSIX TZ, @UTC+2 is two hours _behind_ the Greenwich. Ouch.

Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and

2023-02-01 Thread tomas
On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 01:26:36PM +, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > [ adding Org ML back to CC ] > > Christian Moe writes: > > >> Note, however, that because we are conforming to POSIX TZ, @UTC+2 is two > >> hours _behind_ the Greenwich. > > > > Ouch. > > This is probably something we need to

POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-

2023-02-01 Thread Ihor Radchenko
[ adding Org ML back to CC ] Christian Moe writes: >> Note, however, that because we are conforming to POSIX TZ, @UTC+2 is two >> hours _behind_ the Greenwich. > > Ouch. This is probably something we need to discuss further. Dear All, There is potential confusion coming from the different