Re: [PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time

2012-08-19 Thread Nick Williams
On 19 Aug 2012, at 21:37, Bob Johnson wrote: > > This is why the safety of a product needs to be addressed by a product safety > engineer, not an auditor. After careful review of the hazards and conditions > of use, you may end up with a design with either tighter or looser > constraints than

Re: [PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time

2012-08-19 Thread Bob Johnson
This is a another example of risks taken to limits beyond the considerations in the standard tests. The standard is not intended to contain design rules for every risk, but does a good job of addressing the common ones. If you are using IEC 60950, then careful application of chapter 0 is requir

Re: [PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time

2012-08-16 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
ee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens IBM Ken Verzonden: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:41 AM Aan: Doug Powell CC: John Woodgate; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time And also in 950 with the cheesecloth, tissue paper, and wood. On Wed, Aug 15, 201

Re: [PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time

2012-08-15 Thread IBM Ken
And also in 950 with the cheesecloth, tissue paper, and wood. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Doug Powell wrote: > Conversely, it seems possible to use a "standardized" ignitable > material to evaluate ignition sources. And this has been done to some > extent in IEC 610101-1 section 9.2 "Elimi

Re: [PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time

2012-08-15 Thread Peter Tarver
> From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 12:20 > > John, > > Your point is well taken. > > As a child, I recall running my fingers through a > candle flame. If > you move fast enough, you do not absorb "feel" the heat > of the flame. In a similar vein to t

Re: [PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time

2012-08-15 Thread John Woodgate
In message , dated Wed, 15 Aug 2012, Doug Powell writes: In the end, I suppose my question could be phrased, "Aside from the rapid and devastating mechanical effects of an explosion, is it possible or even likely to start a fire with something like UL 94 HB material, simply with an explosio

Re: [PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time

2012-08-15 Thread Doug Powell
John, Your point is well taken. As a child, I recall running my fingers through a candle flame. If you move fast enough, you do not absorb "feel" the heat of the flame. So it seems to me that the true definition of ignition would be something like "a cirmstance where a source of ignition is sust

Re: [PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time

2012-08-15 Thread John Woodgate
In message , dated Wed, 15 Aug 2012, Doug Powell writes: >For example the UL 94 test is a 30 second exposure to a 50W flame. >Would a 15 second 100W flame be equivalent? Sometimes, sometimes not. It depends on what the heat does to the material. I know of three effects, but there may be more:

[PSES] Ignition sources and exposure time

2012-08-15 Thread Doug Powell
Maybe I should have saved this for a Friday question, but here goes. This is a general question regarding ignition sources and exposure time. In reviewing the flammability (UL 94) tests and the hot wire ignition (UL 746) tests, it seems 30 seconds is the magic number for igniting the sample being