Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Lasse Reichstein
On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.com wrote: We have: 1. Should an array pattern always query 'length'? 2. If the answer to (1) is no, then should ... in an array pattern query 'length'? On reflection and at this point in the thread, with your reply in mind, my

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 5 November 2011 17:44, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.com wrote: Destructuring is irrefutable in that it desugars to assignments from properties of the RHS. It is not typed; it is not refutable I don't think that's true, at least not in the usual sense of irrefutable pattern. Because you can

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 5 November 2011 19:55, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.com wrote: On Nov 5, 2011, at 9:38 AM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: In a similar vain, what is the value of r in: let [z,y,...r] = {0:0, 1:1, 2:2, length: 3, 3:3,4:4}; should it be [2] or [2,3,4]  (and if the latter how is that determined)?

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Till Schneidereit
I.e., I think the most easily comprehensible behavior is to make array destructuring treat the RHS as an Array. It matches the common use-case (actual arrays), it is consistent (does the same whether you use ... or not), and is easily explainable. I agree with the consistency argument. The

[Proxies] Refactoring prototype climbing in the spec

2011-11-07 Thread Tom Van Cutsem
Hi, I wrote up an initial (but fairly complete) draft of a proposed refactoring of the ES5 [[Get]], [[Put]] and [[HasProperty]] algorithms to change the way in which these algorithms climb the prototype chain: http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=strawman:refactoring_put This is mainly

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Nov 7, 2011, at 2:18 AM, Andreas Rossberg wrote: On 5 November 2011 17:44, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.com wrote: Destructuring is irrefutable in that it desugars to assignments from properties of the RHS. It is not typed; it is not refutable I don't think that's true, at least not in

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 7 November 2011 17:07, Allen Wirfs-Brock al...@wirfs-brock.com wrote:  let {x} = 666 which will be refuted, by raising a TypeError. No, It does ToObject(666) and then looks for the x property of the resulting wrapper object. Ouch, really? I don't see that in the proposal

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 7 November 2011 17:34, Allen Wirfs-Brock al...@wirfs-brock.com wrote:  It is just another way to silently inject an `undefined' that is tedious to track down.  We already have too many of those... It is how the language currently behaves in all situations where an object is needed but a

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
How about: let {length} = abc; I think the conversion keeps the illusion alive that every value in JS is an object. On Nov 7, 2011, at 18:21 , Andreas Rossberg wrote: On 7 November 2011 17:34, Allen Wirfs-Brock al...@wirfs-brock.com wrote: It is just another way to silently inject an

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Nov 7, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Axel Rauschmayer wrote: How about: let {length} = abc; or let [first,second] = abc; I think the conversion keeps the illusion alive that every value in JS is an object. On Nov 7, 2011, at 18:21 , Andreas Rossberg wrote: On 7 November 2011 17:34,

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Nov 7, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Andreas Rossberg wrote: On 7 November 2011 17:34, Allen Wirfs-Brock al...@wirfs-brock.com wrote: It is just another way to silently inject an `undefined' that is tedious to track down. We already have too many of those... It is how the language currently

Re: Are some es-discuss submissions automatically blocked?

2011-11-07 Thread David Bruant
Le 06/11/2011 15:37, Axel Rauschmayer a écrit : Claus Reinke could not submit his js-tools discussion group announcement (interestingly, I could do it for him). And the email I appended underneath my signature never got through. Can someone explain the blocking criteria? I have experienced

Re: Are some es-discuss submissions automatically blocked?

2011-11-07 Thread Felipe Gasper
On 11/7/11 2:48 PM, David Bruant wrote: Le 06/11/2011 15:37, Axel Rauschmayer a écrit : Claus Reinke could not submit his js-tools discussion group announcement (interestingly, I could do it for him). And the email I appended underneath my signature never got through. Can someone explain the

Re: Are some es-discuss submissions automatically blocked?

2011-11-07 Thread Axel Rauschmayer
Claus Reinke could not submit his js-tools discussion group announcement (interestingly, I could do it for him). And the email I appended underneath my signature never got through. Can someone explain the blocking criteria? I have experienced similar problems at some point. I don't know what

Re: Are some es-discuss submissions automatically blocked?

2011-11-07 Thread Brendan Eich
We use Google Postini in concert with Mailman. Postini needs to be told sometimes. If you don't see mail get through, mail es-discuss-ow...@mozilla.org about it. /be On Nov 7, 2011, at 12:48 PM, David Bruant wrote: Le 06/11/2011 15:37, Axel Rauschmayer a écrit : Claus Reinke could not

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 7, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Lasse Reichstein wrote: If the object being destructured is in fact a plain Array, with no inherited elements above the length, then there is no difference. This is most likely the (very) common use case. This is what the ES programmers' intuition will be based

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 7, 2011, at 2:18 AM, Andreas Rossberg wrote: On 5 November 2011 17:44, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.com wrote: Destructuring is irrefutable in that it desugars to assignments from properties of the RHS. It is not typed; it is not refutable I don't think that's true, at least not in

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 7, 2011, at 3:04 AM, Andreas Rossberg wrote: On 5 November 2011 19:55, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.com wrote: On Nov 5, 2011, at 9:38 AM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: In a similar vain, what is the value of r in: let [z,y,...r] = {0:0, 1:1, 2:2, length: 3, 3:3,4:4}; should it be

Re: An array destructing specification choice

2011-11-07 Thread Brendan Eich
On Nov 7, 2011, at 10:03 AM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: True, in and instanceof don't follow the rules. I note that they were added in ES3 and I have to wonder if they aren't another case of features being added without sufficient thought being given to maintaining consistency of behavior

Re: [Proxies] Refactoring prototype climbing in the spec

2011-11-07 Thread David Bruant
Hi Tom, Thanks for all this work! Le 07/11/2011 16:54, Tom Van Cutsem a écrit : Hi, I wrote up an initial (but fairly complete) draft of a proposed refactoring of the ES5 [[Get]], [[Put]] and [[HasProperty]] algorithms to change the way in which these algorithms climb the prototype chain:

New ES6 draft posted to wiki

2011-11-07 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
The November 7, 211 (also known as Rev 4) draft is available at http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:specification_drafts Let me know if you really need to docx format copy and I'll send it two you. I haven't found a way to get docuwiki to allow me to upload docx files. It seems