Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-19 Thread Tom Van Cutsem
2011/10/6 Andreas Rossberg > A related nit: even for freeze and friends, the restriction on > recursive fix is NOT enough as currently stated in the proxy > semantics. Consider: > > -- > var handler = { > get fix() { Object.seal(p); return {} } > } > var p = Proxy.create(handler)

Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-10 Thread Tom Van Cutsem
2011/10/10 Andreas Rossberg > On 10 October 2011 16:01, Tom Van Cutsem wrote: > > I will go over the proposed proxies spec to check whether there is > actually > > any harm in allowing a proxy to become non-trapping during an active > trap. > > If the proxy describes a coherent object before and

Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-10 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 10 October 2011 15:38, Tom Van Cutsem wrote: > This point was previously noted, see: > > It was brought up at the March 2011 meeting, and IIRC we were in agreement > that the spec. should be adapted to remove the redundant > getPr

Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-10 Thread Tom Van Cutsem
2011/10/6 Andreas Rossberg > A related nit: even for freeze and friends, the restriction on > recursive fix is NOT enough as currently stated in the proxy > semantics. Consider: > > -- > var handler = { > get fix() { Object.seal(p); return {} } > } > var p = Proxy.create(handler)

Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-10 Thread Tom Van Cutsem
Hi Andreas, These are all good points. Some comments below: 2011/10/5 Andreas Rossberg > Proxies invalidate one fundamental assumption of the current ES spec, > namely that (most) internal methods are effectively pure. That has a > couple of consequences which the current proxy proposal and sem

Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-06 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 5 October 2011 21:00, Andreas Rossberg wrote: > On 5 October 2011 18:57, Andreas Rossberg wrote: >> FIXING PROXIES >> >> A particularly worrisome side effect is fixing a proxy. The proxy >> semantics contains a lot of places saying "If O is a trapping proxy, >> do steps I-J." However, there ge

Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-05 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 6 October 2011 06:34, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: > On Oct 5, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Andreas Rossberg wrote: >> In summary, I'm slightly worried. The above all seems fixable, but is >> that all? Ideally, I'd like to see a more thorough analysis of how the >> addition of proxies affects properties of th

Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-05 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
Good points that we will have to specify careful. Also one the reasons we do prototype implementations. Such issues seems inherent in the adoption of an intercession API and semantics. Having to deal with such issues isn't really new. In ES5 we had to deal with this possibility WRT [[Get]] a

Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-05 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 5 October 2011 18:57, Andreas Rossberg wrote: > FIXING PROXIES > > A particularly worrisome side effect is fixing a proxy. The proxy > semantics contains a lot of places saying "If O is a trapping proxy, > do steps I-J." However, there generally is no guarantee that O remains > a trapping proxy

Re: Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-05 Thread Waldemar Horwat
Please keep bringing these up; they're important. This is something that we'll need to get nailed down for the spec. Yes, I'm worried too, as this problem is not well-understood. It has the feel of a research problem. Waldemar ___ es-discuss ma

Proxy-induced impurity of internal methods

2011-10-05 Thread Andreas Rossberg
Proxies invalidate one fundamental assumption of the current ES spec, namely that (most) internal methods are effectively pure. That has a couple of consequences which the current proxy proposal and semantics seem to ignore, but which we need to address. OBSERVABILITY & EFFICIENCY In ES5, intern