EV Digest 6528

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Motor mods Peter Gabrielsson
        by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
        by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Curtis 1231C squealing solution
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Choosing diodes for a rectactor circuit.
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: How to get Solectria AC55 motor to fit transmission, is it
  possible?
        by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Choosing diodes for a rectactor circuit.An' Other Stuff.
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) 1986 Nissan 300ZX Rebuild
        by "Erich Hunter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: 1986 Nissan 300ZX Rebuild
        by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: 1986 Nissan 300ZX Rebuild
        by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Conductive Grease, Was: Safety Disconnect
        by Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Processor Lockup Failsafe
        by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: subaru
        by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Kilovac EV-200 as safety disconnect?
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: SCCA Problems with Electrics
        by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Motor mods Peter Gabrielsson
        by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Motor mods Peter Gabrielsson
        by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
        by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 19) Re: FWD friction
        by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: FWD friction
        by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
        by "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: FWD friction
        by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) charging packs of standard NIMH batteries used in homemade segway
 type balancing scooter
        by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- On my motor, the paper was behind the pole shoe _windings, but NOT on the metal base that bolted to the motor housing. In fact, there were some steel shims there.

Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
After giving it some more thought, I could swear there was a thick
sheet of nomex paper behind the pole shoes when I took it apart. Since
you've presumable taken more of these apart than I have, tell me if
I'm just hallucinating.

-Peter

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does the news actually know what caused the crash?  What do
investigators say?  Sounds like a computer failure of drive by wire
technology - not EV technology. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 13:18
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Subject: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07

As always ....The " PRESS" will fly in a helicopter, a crew, cameras,
etc. to cover a shooting, a robbery, a Car Accident..
any thing negative...   But try and get them to cover an Electric Car 
that CAN, a young person triumphing over some adversity, doing some
civic GOOD, building an EV, and the guy will tell ya..
  "Good News Doesn't sell News Papers"

Well, this CRASH is not good news either.
KING TV NEWS:
http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_030607WABhybridcaraccidentJM.2
646476e.html

And all this just on the heels of Sherry Boschert's visit to Seattle,
  ( My EAA counterpart from San Francisco) and her Book Tour for her new
book:
"Plug-In Hybrids: The Cars That Will Recharge America"

She did pull off a wonderful 1 hour interview on the local PBS station (
KUOW)  You can go to their audio archives for 3/6/07...
the Weekday Show, and listen to it...
(short cut)   http://www.kuow.org/defaultProgram.asp?ID=12364

But the Media being what the Media IS... Sherry only got to mention the
Seattle EV Association once, and on their web site where they list
Additional WEB information on the Subject of the interview..
     no mention of SEVA or any of the PHEV, and EV work we have done
over the last 26 years...
That hurt a little...
But I know any of us involved in Self Promotion of EV's and PHEV's or
Alt Fuel in general have run into this...

   So the Good Fight Goes ON.

--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web:     http://www.seattleeva.org

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is simular to a glass harmonica(mixed with fingernails on the black board
@ about a 10 to one ratio nice to grating) that sounds between F & F# above
the treble music staff.  I got it with my 1221C and an 8inch ADC.  It's
really not a big deal.  It also tells you when the controller is working.
Sort of a musical overature.  Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ian Page-Echols" <>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: Curtis 1231C squealing solution


> Could someone upload a sample of what this squeal sounds like

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
So is there any kind of voltage spikes I need to worry about, or
do I simply need to match the voltage rating to the battery pack
maximum voltage?

No, the only voltage spikes are whatever the charger can deliver worst case. In the basic rectactor, the diodes only need to be rated at the maximum battery voltage for one of the packs. For example, two 12v batteries only need two 15v diodes (though realistically you will use 30v or more). No diode ever has to withstand the full series pack voltage.

Also in the diagram I am going off of there is no freewheel diode
across the motor, but other diagrams I have looked at do include
this. Is this extra diode needed/helpful?

It depends on your setup. If the accelerator pedal controls the contactors, then you can't help but ramp up, going through every intermediate step (moving accelerator from off to fully on), and ramp down (move from fully on to off). This means the motor is never open-circuited, and there is always a path for its inductive current. The last step (from lowest voltage with resistor to "off") will interrupt motor current, but the resistor insures that current won't be very high and the voltage that last contactor breaks is quite low.

With other circuits, there will be times when the motor current is interrupted, such as when going from series to parallel with contactors (no diodes). In this case, a diode across the motor helps.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:38 AM 3/8/2007, you wrote:
The Solectria AC55 motor seems to be a good choice for a "budget" AC system:

http://www.azuredynamics.com/pdf/AC55%20-%20June%202005.pdf

It's diameter is 13.7", though! HUGE!

The center of my transmission to the right wheel drive axle (the transmission is to the left of the engine) measures about 5.5 inches. So, it would appear this motor would be too big, but I was wondering if one trimmed some of the heatsink fins near the drive shaft, plus maybe a little bit into the casing, if this would provide enough clearance? I think I would need to trim off enough to gain 1.35" of clearance, I'm estimating.

Drive axle interference can definitely be a problem with the AC55 in FWD cars. Also, it requires a minimum of 288V, and 312V is considered optimum. We recommend this motor mostly for pickups.

Shari Prange


Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
  Hi Damon;

   I had great luck with Rectacter controllers before I went to my
Rapture(Rapter)On my 120 volt Rabbit I had 6 big honkin' Diodes. Like 200
for the 4 for the 30 volt part, and 2 300 amp, I think? for the series
paralllel. Try to find them with about twice the PIV voltage above your
running voltage, like I think I had 5-600 volts there. Later on, tapped into
the RR supply system, "helping"scrap E- RR cars I got some BIG ones, I don't
know the rating but the damn pigtales were as big around as my pinkee. They
were in banks for the AC to DC traction stuff so I know they HAD to do
600-700 volts. I DID actually kill one pulling out of the Cumbersome Farms
parking lot, a normal start. I wasn't squeeling out or racing. Fuze blew.
had 4, one for each battery bank, and I was simply down to 90 volts, got
home, dignity intact. I had retro fitted the RR ones in my Rectacter, when I
rebuilt it smaller to fit in the Rabbit. It had started out life in my 65
Corvair Corsa, in the early 70's. Special note to Lee Hart: Same color and
thing ya have in YOUR driveway, BEGGING to be converted!<g> EVerybody else;
Corvairs make NICE conversions as they are simple and LIGHT!They are scarce
as Rabbits and Trabants, around here.

    I often see BIG diodes in junk and surplus places, Get the Heat Sinks
too, while yur up! They get HOT, but as you go through yur "Points" on the
Rectacter to Full On, you are shunting the diodes out and you have Nature's
Most Perfect Controller at full power.Hmmm? Still have that old Rectacter
from the Rabbit,It may live again, but ya HAVE to have a clutch and 4-5
gears to play with to smooth the big 'Lumps" out as you arent as heavy as a
streetcar or locomotive to soften up the steps!But, Bottom line the
Rectacter NEVER let me down, and I was good at rowing through the gears to
smooth it out.Down side is al;l the @#$%^ Cabling ya have to do to bring 4,
count them! Sets of Plus an' Neg  from yur batteries to the BIG controller
box. AND, THIS is important: a relay that switches the contacters to "Full
On" for charging, and isolates the Line Switch" so the car/motor doesn't try
to get away at FULL power! Something the Waterman Electric Lepard guy didn't
think of!!He had a Charge-run switch, a accident waiting to happen!IF the
chargee DIDN'T remember to switch it BEFORE plugging it in!!

   To make it simple and HALF the wiring, just make it 2 speed! Saves alota
pricy cable and have a starting resister wired in to soften the first
step!Only time I used the 30 volt point was for parking and creeping in
traffic, anyhow.Did cruise at 60 volts in say second gear for low amp drain
on the batteries and for going for range, not speed.

   My two points worth

   Bob
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 4:04 PM
Subject: Choosing diodes for a rectactor circuit.


> How does one go about choosing the right diodes for a rectactor circuit.
I
> have a saved copy of a circuit that Lee Hart posted and some big new
> surpluss conatactors I bought off of Ebay.  I want to build the circuit
and
> watch it work, probably with a coat hanger and a bucket of water to start
> off with, but I have not worked with big diodes before and I don't know
what
> specs are important to look at.  I have been up on mouser.com looking
around
> and seen several that look like good candidates to me, but it is a
somewhat
> uneducated guess on my part.
>
> Here is one that looked reasonable.  Am I in the ballpark?  Mouser part
> #RHRG75120.
>
> damon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a
month.
> Intro*Terms
>
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 3/7/07
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a 1986 Nissan 300ZX that I want to rebuild into an EV.

So my question is, where do I start?

Though I want it to be fully electric, I also would like to engineer it to
still have some getupandgo. So I need to come up with a plan to create a
system that is both electrical and still powerful enough to get me around at
speeds I am looking for.

Long range touring is not required at this time because it is mostly used
for local work, so the total milage on a single charge is not as important
yet, though I want to design it to handle longer distances, and higher power
loads in the future.

Would it make more sense to purchase a larger more powerful engine, capable
of working at lower energy levels, as I build up the power bank for
instance?

So Where do I want to start? What kind of batteries do I want to research
for optimal power? I've seen some drag racers in electric cars come out of
the gate pretty quick.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a guy on here who converted a 300Z already.  Just copy his
setup.  I think his name was Matt. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Erich Hunter
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 14:23
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 1986 Nissan 300ZX Rebuild

I have a 1986 Nissan 300ZX that I want to rebuild into an EV.

So my question is, where do I start?

Though I want it to be fully electric, I also would like to engineer it
to still have some getupandgo. So I need to come up with a plan to
create a system that is both electrical and still powerful enough to get
me around at speeds I am looking for.

Long range touring is not required at this time because it is mostly
used for local work, so the total milage on a single charge is not as
important yet, though I want to design it to handle longer distances,
and higher power loads in the future.

Would it make more sense to purchase a larger more powerful engine,
capable of working at lower energy levels, as I build up the power bank
for instance?

So Where do I want to start? What kind of batteries do I want to
research for optimal power? I've seen some drag racers in electric cars
come out of the gate pretty quick.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You confuse Matt's 240SX with the 300ZX'es converted by Jeff and Steve. 
You can find all kinds of cars and setups in the EV album, there are
two pages full of Datsun/Nissan cars:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/type/DTNS

Matt Graham is racing his 240, he also featured on Dragtimes.com

Success,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225    VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675    eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:28 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: 1986 Nissan 300ZX Rebuild

There is a guy on here who converted a 300Z already.  Just copy his setup.
I think his name was Matt. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Erich Hunter
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 14:23
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 1986 Nissan 300ZX Rebuild

I have a 1986 Nissan 300ZX that I want to rebuild into an EV.

So my question is, where do I start?

Though I want it to be fully electric, I also would like to engineer it to
still have some getupandgo. So I need to come up with a plan to create a
system that is both electrical and still powerful enough to get me around at
speeds I am looking for.

Long range touring is not required at this time because it is mostly used
for local work, so the total milage on a single charge is not as important
yet, though I want to design it to handle longer distances, and higher power
loads in the future.

Would it make more sense to purchase a larger more powerful engine, capable
of working at lower energy levels, as I build up the power bank for
instance?

So Where do I want to start? What kind of batteries do I want to research
for optimal power? I've seen some drag racers in electric cars come out of
the gate pretty quick.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Bruce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is there any reason that you wouldn't want to use OxGard or
> Kopr-Shield on all of your terminals and connections rather 
> than Vasoline or Noalox?

Yes.  Because none of the above compounds you listed, even the
Vaseline or NoAlOx are particularily good at what you need it 
to do.  Namely, as others have mentioned already, to serve as
an oxygen and moisture barrier.

NoAlOx or Vaseline aren't particularily durable in an automotive
environment.  I've found, by far, the best thing to use on battery
terminals and lugs is $3 a tub high temp bearing grease.  You don't
need much, just whatever a disposable acid brush will put on the
terminal and lug.  I also put it on the lug's pinch bolt and nut.
The bearing grease repels moisture very well, and won't run readily
or dry out to a crust when heated.  That's about all you need it
to do.  If you're relying on the compound rather than a clean tight
joint for connection integrity, you're in for a few melted posts.
The point of the treatment isn't to improve conductivity, but to
retain the level of conductivity you have over temperature 
excursions and moisture exposure.

Mark "EV Basher" Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Well an external supervisor is different. It would require a significant understanding of the issues to establish if it's actually better.

It's good to keep some perspective on the issue. On a PIC, the WDT is actually a separate part of the chip, even driven by its own oscillator. It is extremely unlikely to be able to create a situation which would disable the WDT outside of latchup (an external supervisor may also be subject to latchup). The WDT is well integrated with the PIC and is great for relatively graceful, reliable recovery. External sups can have subtle integration issues.

In a properly designed system, the WDT may never even be used in the life of the product. Unless you know of a really specific problem, complicating the system with an external sup could easily make the system less reliable. Now if we're talking about trying to design to accomodate an unknown, hypothetical problem that probably wouldn't occur once in a hundred years I think the time, money, and design space could be better spent on thermal design and the driver stage.

Danny

Victor Tikhonov wrote:

A watchdog is simplest solution but not entirely foolproof.

There are many CPU supervisor chips meant to do just that.
Since they are separate ICs they are unaffected by any troubles
with CPU.

Real reliable intelligent often have 2 (or more) CPUs cross checking
on each other. With cost of a CPU approaching cost of normal logic
chip it is trivial solution, just SMOP.

Victor


Bill Dennis wrote:

If you're using a microprocessor to control charging, what's a good way to have the system fail to a safe state, should the processor freeze up--for example, turn off the charger. One possibility that came to mind was some type of circuit or chip that expects its input to be flip-flopped every few seconds, and if it isn't, opens a relay. Is there a simple circuit or chip that already does this? Or is there a better way?

Thanks.

Bill Dennis




--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- It wasn't until the mid-90's that all Subarus became all-wheel drive. Prior to that there were 2wd's available.


Jerry

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you know the history of the EV200 you had
> failing?

One month old from KTA Services.  No matter what the rating my experience &
in my eyes the looks of the EV-200 scream it's what's on the insides that
count.  Just like a pretty girl.  Ratings be damned.  Also it seems that
this model has been derated down to 320 amps continuos.  My controller was
just 700 amps.  I was crusing at 40 mph at atout 150 amps when the event
happened.  She just took off.  Ken at KTA gave me credit on a new Albright.
I now use two Albrights.  Lawrence Rhodes......

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,

This is the very reason that the autocross special interest group was
started (www.evautox.com). This way people from around the community could
discuss these and all the other concerns and then create a guideline for
these organizations to use. 

Not knowing the details, but it sounds like someone was using flooded
lead-acid batteries. I think a fundamental safety rule for flooded batteries
is that they are stored in some sort of liquid retaining tray or battery
box. I think most people agree that for any type of lead-acid batteries,
splash shields should be used to prevent acid and lead from getting to the
driver. But if the car has flooded batts, then it must have some way of
containing the acid for spills for turns or accidents.

Other batteries have other considerations that should be taken in to
consideration. Lithium or AGM batteries would not need a containment system,
but should have shields over them.

Battery and EV technology has changed a lot in last several years as well.
We as a community have gotten smarter and wiser about the vehicles. Having a
set of guidelines and racing 'safe' electric vehicles at autocross and SCCA
events will help those communities feel better about the cars. 

Imagine if we had constant issues of battery acid leaks and "meltdowns" on
the drag strips, we wouldn't be welcomed there either. NEDRA and the NHRA
have rules and guidelines and all vehicles go through the tech inspection
prior to racing. As a result, the track record for vehicle safety has
improved.

EVAutoX is trying to create a WIKI for the safety guidelines that can be
used anywhere from the highly regimented SCCA events, to the Porsche Club of
America to events ran at our races like Battery Beach and Power of DC. 

I certainly do agree with you that we, the EV community, should take it upon
ourselves to work to create the safety rules to show that we can compete
safely in other events against ICE cars.    

Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
561-543-9223
www.floridaeaa.org
 
-----Original Message-----
From: David Dymaxion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:56 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: SCCA Problems with Electrics

<http://sccaforums.com/forums/permalink/222005/221933/ShowThread.aspx#221933
>
Quoted from http://www.sccaforums.com:
Two years ago at the SCCA convention someone brought up the idea in
the main Town Hall meeting about electric race cars.  He basically
sort of accused the SCCA of not bothering to care about electric race
cars in general and said we needed to be exploring it.  Then
someone from Arizona (IIRC) said their region had several folks who had
tried electric race cars but that they had several have battery
meltdowns on track and they were banned from at least one track because
of the damage and cleanup problems from this kind of failure.  I
can only imagine that even if you got the necessary monitoring down to
prevent this that you'd still have to worry about the problems caused
by wrecks.
Anyway, the "meltdown" problem is one that should
definitely be carefully considered for autocross use since it's pretty
easy to lose sites these days and very hard to get new ones.  All
that said, the idea of building an electric autocross car is fairly
intriguing.  Think about the ramifications of being able to dial
your power delivery up and down based on how many runs you plan to take
and how long the course is.  The tire cost debate would go out the
window compared to the battery cost debate, though!  I used to
race electric RC off road buggies and believe me, you haven't seen
anything like the battery wars we could see in autocross with a popular
electric class!

The whole thread:
<http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/222005/ShowThread.aspx>





 
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Looking for earth-friendly autos? 
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Peter

You might want to stop eating those wild mushrooms 8^P

Actually the Nomex paper sits between the pole shoes
to act as a second later of insulation between the
housing and coils.  A lot of times it's just located
at a bare welded connection union and keeps that
un-insulated section from touching the housing.  

You'll also see narrow Nomex bands running around the
inside housing along the edge areas.  These don't stay
put very well though and I don't duplicate those.  If
you thing about it, most of the coil doesn't hit
against the housing just the edges do, so this type of
use is pretty mute if you've installed the in-between
type.  

By adding 10 mil Nomex behind the fields they'll be a
little extra snug which keeps the coils tight so they
won't vibrate and wear through the insulation. (if you
put anything behind the shoe the coils get looser). 
Sticking the Nomex back there allows another little
test where I can give it a little tug with a
needlenose.  If it don't move I know the fields are
tight and properly seated.  If I can move it I loosen
the pole shoe up and stick an insulation shim behind
the coil, usually a piece of insulation tubing used
for leads.  Works great.  I also like to spray the
housing assy. with a light clear spray insulation
(AC-46) which locks it all down.  For inhouse repair
this is a proceedure you can get by without.

Anyway like Eric had stated metal shims are okay and
you find them on mostly older motors.  GE uses them a
lot but I can't remember the last time I saw any used.

Bottom line is nothing between poles and housing but
steel.

BTW I was glad to hear you aren't very far along with
the motor.  Kind of sucks to be the "gloom and doom"
guy all the time!  Also those colors are pretty close
aren't they?  Haha I believe I painted the one I did
first, hehe 8^P

Well my break is over 8^(

Hope this helps.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


--- Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> After giving it some more thought, I could swear
> there was a thick
> sheet of nomex paper behind the pole shoes when I
> took it apart. Since
> you've presumable taken more of these apart than I
> have, tell me if
> I'm just hallucinating.
> 
> -Peter
> 
> 
> On 3/8/07, Peter Gabrielsson
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 3/8/07, Jim Husted
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hey Peter
> > >
> > > Not a lot of time this morning but I wanted to
> get
> > > with you real quick.
> > >
> > > In wanting to get back to you on the spring
> issue I
> > > went to your blog and had a peek.
> > >
> > > I noticed you painted the inside of your housing
> and
> > > possibly the back side of the pole shoes.
> >
> > Ah, well that's easy to fix while I still have it
> appart. Thanks for
> > the heads up.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Sorry to be a bummer here but it's important to
> keep
> > > those areas clean and bare metal.  You want a
> direct
> > > metal to metal contact there (betwen the shoe
> and the
> > > housing) as it's part of the magnetics of the
> motor.
> > >
> > > Just another example of where I can help save
> you guys
> > > effort, if I'm informed, LMAO.
> > >
> > > As to the spring tension (not something I
> actually
> > > think about being I just do it.)(I also try to
> look at
> > > where they are set (before I remove them)  There
> are 4
> > > and 5 turn GE springs.  Usually it's about a 1/2
> turn
> > > so maybe you can take me a pic with the springs
> in
> > > both locations so I can have a look.  Just a
> little
> > > different doing stuff via internet and hands on.
> >
> > Yeah, noting it down when taking it appart would
> have been the smart
> > thing to do, remember when I told you I'm another
> caveman with a
> > hammer :)
> > On closer inspection I probably had them at 3/4 of
> a turn, i.e. if
> > just put in with no twist the spring would have
> pointed out,  away
> > from the center of the motor.
> >
> > >
> > > It does appear they are in the correct possition
> from
> > > the ring pic you posted but a pic of them
> un-latched
> > > and just set onto the spring arm will help me
> help you
> > > there.
> > >
> > > Like I said I saw the painted housing inside and
> > > wanted to say ooops!
> > >
> > > Sorry I'm such a downer 8^P
> > >
> > > Got to run I'll have a deeper look at your blog
> > > tonight.
> > >
> > > Cya
> > > Jim usted
> > > Hi-Torque Electric
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > > Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peek at the
> forecast
> > > with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> > >
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.electric-lemon.com
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> www.electric-lemon.com
> 
> 



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. 
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric, Peter and all,
   
  There should never be any non-magnetic material between the pole and the 
frame, such as paint, paper (Nomex) or air.  Sometimes steel shims are used 
between the pole and frame to adjust the main airgap distance (clearance 
between the armature and pole face).  Called pole shims.  Made from steel or 
iron.  Adding pole shims reduces air gap which increases flux at light loads 
and therefore reduces light load speed in series motors.  Doesn't affect it 
much at heavy loads.

  Nomex (high temp paper) is often used to insulate field coils against frame 
and pole.  But if it was between the frame and pole, someone made a mistake.
   
  Jeff
  
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  On my motor, the paper was behind the pole shoe _windings, but NOT on 
the metal base that bolted to the motor housing. In fact, there were 
some steel shims there.

Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
> After giving it some more thought, I could swear there was a thick
> sheet of nomex paper behind the pole shoes when I took it apart. Since
> you've presumable taken more of these apart than I have, tell me if
> I'm just hallucinating.
>
> -Peter



 
---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the article and on the video they mention that the guy had to get
multiple dealers to check the car to make sure it was safe...why? Was it
previously wrecked? I would believe that the brakes failed before I believe
that computer or electronic failure caused the car to speed away. I wonder
if the brake system had a failure and that was why there was a problem with
the car. 

I agree with you Steve, it is very frustrating to hear this ignorance make
the news. Keep up the good work though!

Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
561-543-9223
www.floridaeaa.org
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:35 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07

Does the news actually know what caused the crash?  What do
investigators say?  Sounds like a computer failure of drive by wire
technology - not EV technology. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 13:18
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Subject: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07

As always ....The " PRESS" will fly in a helicopter, a crew, cameras,
etc. to cover a shooting, a robbery, a Car Accident..
any thing negative...   But try and get them to cover an Electric Car 
that CAN, a young person triumphing over some adversity, doing some
civic GOOD, building an EV, and the guy will tell ya..
  "Good News Doesn't sell News Papers"

Well, this CRASH is not good news either.
KING TV NEWS:
http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_030607WABhybridcaraccidentJM.2
646476e.html

And all this just on the heels of Sherry Boschert's visit to Seattle,
  ( My EAA counterpart from San Francisco) and her Book Tour for her new
book:
"Plug-In Hybrids: The Cars That Will Recharge America"

She did pull off a wonderful 1 hour interview on the local PBS station (
KUOW)  You can go to their audio archives for 3/6/07...
the Weekday Show, and listen to it...
(short cut)   http://www.kuow.org/defaultProgram.asp?ID=12364

But the Media being what the Media IS... Sherry only got to mention the
Seattle EV Association once, and on their web site where they list
Additional WEB information on the Subject of the interview..
     no mention of SEVA or any of the PHEV, and EV work we have done
over the last 26 years...
That hurt a little...
But I know any of us involved in Self Promotion of EV's and PHEV's or
Alt Fuel in general have run into this...

   So the Good Fight Goes ON.

--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web:     http://www.seattleeva.org

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 It sounds to me like he stepped on the gas pedal by mistake... same thing that 
killed the Audi 5000....
    
 -----Original Message-----
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
 Sent: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:35 AM
 Subject: RE: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
 
  Does the news actually know what caused the crash?  What do
investigators say?  Sounds like a computer failure of drive by wire
technology - not EV technology. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 13:18
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Subject: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07

As always ....The " PRESS" will fly in a helicopter, a crew, cameras,
etc. to cover a shooting, a robbery, a Car Accident..
any thing negative...   But try and get them to cover an Electric Car 
that CAN, a young person triumphing over some adversity, doing some
civic GOOD, building an EV, and the guy will tell ya..
  "Good News Doesn't sell News Papers"

Well, this CRASH is not good news either.
KING TV NEWS:
http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_030607WABhybridcaraccidentJM.2
646476e.html

And all this just on the heels of Sherry Boschert's visit to Seattle,
  ( My EAA counterpart from San Francisco) and her Book Tour for her new
book:
"Plug-In Hybrids: The Cars That Will Recharge America"

She did pull off a wonderful 1 hour interview on the local PBS station (
KUOW)  You can go to their audio archives for 3/6/07...
the Weekday Show, and listen to it...
(short cut)   http://www.kuow.org/defaultProgram.asp?ID=12364

But the Media being what the Media IS... Sherry only got to mention the
Seattle EV Association once, and on their web site where they list
Additional WEB information on the Subject of the interview..
     no mention of SEVA or any of the PHEV, and EV work we have done
over the last 26 years...
That hurt a little...
But I know any of us involved in Self Promotion of EV's and PHEV's or
Alt Fuel in general have run into this...

   So the Good Fight Goes ON.

--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web:     http://www.seattleeva.org

   
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
AOL at AOL.com.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Wouldn't Claudio have worn in the brakes by now?
>
> Will using Auto transmission oil ruin the bearings in a manual
> transmission?

Some cars use a light weight oil in both their manual and auto trannies.
(Light oil might require different seals and is usually a noisier tranny.)

Drag would be from 4 basic components... wheel bearings/seals, brakes, CV
joints and tranny. As suggested, one could pull the brakes to see if
that's the prob. If that's not the majority of drag, pull the stub axle to
eliminate the tranny.

I'd also jack the car so the wheel is in "drive" position. If the
suspension is fully extended, CV joint angle (and possibly resistance)
could change. By repacking bearings and making sure the calipers don't
drag, I've significantly reduced resistance on some of my cars. Oh, and
don't forget the rear wheels, also. (They should have very little drag, if
working properly.)

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd also jack the car so the wheel is in "drive" position. If the
suspension is fully extended, CV joint angle (and possibly resistance)
could change. By repacking bearings and making sure the calipers don't
drag, I've significantly reduced resistance on some of my cars. Oh, and
don't forget the rear wheels, also. (They should have very little drag, if
working properly.)


One thing I'd be wondering - what is the current draw of
the motor just 'as is' at the same RPM, and/or what is
the current draw in neutral at the same motor speed? I
found high bearing preload in one of my BLDC's using
the current draw, which was 5A at 45V and 1800 RPM, and
it should have been about 2.8A at 45V and 1800 RPM (just
the raw motor on the bench). Almost doubled the no-load
motor current because of one little shim. :-(

-Dale

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Regardless of the cause, when I build (eventually) my ev, it's definitely going to have a red push-in panic disconnect button.

Peri Hartman

----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: 08 March, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07


In the article and on the video they mention that the guy had to get
multiple dealers to check the car to make sure it was safe...why? Was it
previously wrecked? I would believe that the brakes failed before I believe
that computer or electronic failure caused the car to speed away. I wonder
if the brake system had a failure and that was why there was a problem with
the car.

I agree with you Steve, it is very frustrating to hear this ignorance make
the news. Keep up the good work though!

Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
561-543-9223
www.floridaeaa.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:35 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07

Does the news actually know what caused the crash?  What do
investigators say?  Sounds like a computer failure of drive by wire
technology - not EV technology.

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 13:18
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Subject: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07

As always ....The " PRESS" will fly in a helicopter, a crew, cameras,
etc. to cover a shooting, a robbery, a Car Accident..
any thing negative...   But try and get them to cover an Electric Car
that CAN, a young person triumphing over some adversity, doing some
civic GOOD, building an EV, and the guy will tell ya..
 "Good News Doesn't sell News Papers"

Well, this CRASH is not good news either.
KING TV NEWS:
http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_030607WABhybridcaraccidentJM.2
646476e.html

And all this just on the heels of Sherry Boschert's visit to Seattle,
 ( My EAA counterpart from San Francisco) and her Book Tour for her new
book:
"Plug-In Hybrids: The Cars That Will Recharge America"

She did pull off a wonderful 1 hour interview on the local PBS station (
KUOW)  You can go to their audio archives for 3/6/07...
the Weekday Show, and listen to it...
(short cut)   http://www.kuow.org/defaultProgram.asp?ID=12364

But the Media being what the Media IS... Sherry only got to mention the
Seattle EV Association once, and on their web site where they list
Additional WEB information on the Subject of the interview..
    no mention of SEVA or any of the PHEV, and EV work we have done
over the last 26 years...
That hurt a little...
But I know any of us involved in Self Promotion of EV's and PHEV's or
Alt Fuel in general have run into this...

  So the Good Fight Goes ON.

--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web:     http://www.seattleeva.org



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Have you tried it with the clutch disconnected?  If it spins
>> much easier with the clutch disengaged, that might indicate a
>> misalignment between the motor and the transmission.
>
> Sorry, should have mentioned that we're running clutchless.
>

Do you still have a neutral?  If so, try it.  I'm a bit concerned that you
might have a misalignment at the motor to tranny mount.  If the shafts
aren't nearly perfectly alligned, you can get some pretty hefty drag from
the shaft bearings.

-- 
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

here is how it is done.


http://www.tlb.org/scooter2.html

Batteries

I also installed better batteries. Version 1 started with 120 cells worth of cheap off-brand NiMH batteries. One bank of 30 caught fire because the fragile plastic shell wore through, and one seems to have a dead cell that won't accept a charge. Version 2 uses 60 HHR-6500 D cells from Panasonic. Digikey part P019-ND. These are high-quality cells with low internal resistance (typically 2 milliohms -- theoretical short circuit current = 600 amps!) I wired them in two parallel strings of 30 for a nominal voltage of 36 volts, able to deliver 200 amps at 30 volts. This works out to 8 horsepower peak. Those pedestrians better get out of my way!

In the original scooter I used a diode bridge to parallel the batteries while allowing some voltage difference between them. In the new version I use a relay to connect both batteries simultaneously when the power is on. This reduces power supply impedance and gives smoother control. Also, the relay disconnects the batteries from each other during charging so I can charge the packs separately. There are two charging jacks on the console.
--- End Message ---

Reply via email to