EV Digest 6532
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Nice AC motors on E-bay
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Squealing Curtis 1231C
by rod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: 1986 Nissan 300ZX Rebuild
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: SCCA Problems with Electrics
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Squealing Curtis 1231C
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: New EV'er
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) battery life in cold months?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: One Small Step for NEV's - One GIANT Step for Electric CARS
by "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: battery life in cold months?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: One Small Step for NEV's - One GIANT Step for Electric CARS
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: battery life in cold months?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Jaguar XJ6 EV?
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: One Small Step for NEV's - One GIANT Step for Electric CARS
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: battery life in cold months?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EVs in Chicagoland
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 300V EV Questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Kilovac EV-200 as safety disconnect?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: [EV] Re: Kilovac EV-200 as safety disconnect?
by "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Jaguar XJ6 EV?
by garth marriott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Magnetics theory help (was Re: Motor mods Peter)
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: BugE again
by "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: SCCA Problems with Electrics
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Don't worry - The Prius brakes are the best I have ever seen on any car I
owned.
This story is so full of contradictions that it is not even funny,
so I suggest you stop wasting your breath over it.
Example:
driver implies that it has a design fault, because the runaway car could not
be shifted into neutral to disable it, but next statement is that it all
happened so fast that there was no time for anything.
Sounds to me as searching for a stick to hit a dog - you find that the car
has no true disconnect from the wheels and you use that to blame an error or
defect that is not even known yet and you could not have prevented because
there was no time, but now at least you are certain it's the cars fault (in
your own mind).
I have never heard of a car needing two dealerships to declare it safe to
drive.
There certainly is some stink to this story.
Not in the least part because the driver noticed that the car was acting up
and instead of stopping the car that was not in good order, it was being
driven back to the dealer. Who is taking a risk here?
Anyway, lets get back to our regularly scheduled programming on EVs!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Kane
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:20 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
On 3/8/07, Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I own a Prius, you cam't just shut off the ign switch. In order to
> shut it off while it is moving, you have to hit the power button
> twice, because of the computer programming. I learned this just
> recently, even tough I have owned it for a year and a half. A new
> owner may not be aware of this.
> Bill
>
> Richard Acuti wrote:
>
> > What a stupid article. In over 100 years of use, an ICE powered car
> > has never crashed into a building due to a stuck accelerator? The
> > 12v electrical system has never sparked a gasoline fire after an
accident?
> >
> > I can see some upset soccer mommy in front of a Congressional
> > committee
> > now: "Hybrids and electric-drive cars are a menace to our highways
> > and must be stopped!"
> >
> > You know, although the article quoted the guy saying he applied the
> > brakes, never once did he say "I shut off the ignition switch". I
> > realize he was taken by surprise and probably only had seconds to
> > act but that probably would have prevented the whole thing. Just as
> > it would for any other ICE vehicle.
> >
> > Rich A.
> >
> >
> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 10:17:31 -0800
> > From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Subject: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> > As always ....The " PRESS" will fly in a helicopter, a crew,
> > cameras, etc. to cover a shooting, a robbery, a Car Accident..
> > any thing negative... But try and get them to cover an Electric Car
> > that CAN, a young person triumphing over some adversity, doing some
> > civic GOOD, building an EV, and the guy will tell ya..
> > "Good News Doesn't sell News Papers"
> >
> > Well, this CRASH is not good news either.
> > KING TV NEWS:
> >
> http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_030607WABhybridcaraccidentJM
> .2646476e.html
> >
> >
> > And all this just on the heels of Sherry Boschert's visit to
> > Seattle, ( My EAA counterpart from San Francisco) and her Book Tour
> > for her new
> > book:
> > "Plug-In Hybrids: The Cars That Will Recharge America"
> >
> > She did pull off a wonderful 1 hour interview on the local PBS
> > station ( KUOW) You can go to their audio archives for 3/6/07...
> > the Weekday Show, and listen to it...
> > (short cut) http://www.kuow.org/defaultProgram.asp?ID=12364
> >
> > But the Media being what the Media IS... Sherry only got to mention
> > the Seattle EV Association once, and on their web site where they
> > list Additional WEB information on the Subject of the interview..
> > no mention of SEVA or any of the PHEV, and EV work we have done
> > over the last 26 years...
> > That hurt a little...
> > But I know any of us involved in Self Promotion of EV's and PHEV's
> > or Alt Fuel in general have run into this...
> >
> > So the Good Fight Goes ON.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
> > Experian.
> >
> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOO
> TERAVERAGE
> >
> >
> >
>
> In ALL Automobiles, ICE or EV or whatever, the brakes *must* be
> able
to stop the car EVEN while the engine is at FULL power. In Vermont where I
took my first driving test, the instructor first of all checks to see
whether the *emergency* brake (usually 1/2 or less as strong as the service
brake in passenger cars) can hold the car in gear under power.
Those of you who have driven commercial trucks know about the braking
system in those 23000+ pound vehicles. The wheel-chocks are really just for
show.
I sincerely hope that this incident is due to driver error. If that is
not the case then Toyota is SEVERELY REMISS in marketing a car to the public
(regardless of its drive system) that is capable of overpowering its own
service brakes. End Of Story.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
$2K for a 33KW continous 3-phase AC motor is a tad overpriced, isnt it ?
how much does one weigh, by the way ?
-kert
On 3/9/07, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 8 Mar 2007 at 23:27, Al wrote:
> What say?
I say : Just about month or two another newbie hops on the EVDL here and
tells us (or asks us) about these motors. ;-)
Sorry, no offense meant, but it's true. Check the archives.
They've been on offer for YEARS, with precious few sales, and for good
reason. There are no controllers for them. Unless you want to design and
build your own AC controller, they're basically expensive doorstops.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ian,
I don't have the technology to upload a squealing Curtis sample.
Suffice it to say if I was building a car from the ground up again I would be
looking for a quiet model. E.g. Zilla 1K. Very much cooler in the parking
lot.
Rod
> From:
> Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Date:
> Yesterday 10:50:34
>
> Could someone upload a sample of what this squeal sounds like? I'd
> like to know if people are being picky or if it's something that
> would drive me crazy or to the verge of embarrassment to have in my
> own car. I've got server space to host it if someone sends me an
> audio file. Or if someone has a youtube or other video up with this
> sound, please point me to it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I converted the 1987 300zx (Album Number 747
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/747 ) It is an overweight pig, (And the
driver could afford to go on a diet too)
Initially the single 9" with 17 batteries would lay down rubber from 0
to 30 ish, impressive and better than stock. This was using 2nd gear in
the stock tranny, 1st gear is just to low. I needed more range and
increased the battery count to 24. This still was zippy but not tire
smoking.
Then I blew up the motor and had to have it rebuilt. we had the timing
increased on the motor and discovered that too much advance is not good
for such a 4050lb beast (1000lb or exide orbitals). The sensation is
like that of lugging a gear, as it gets spinning it then picks up
acceleration.
So now acceleration is ok for around town but not up to original ICE
version. I need to play with timing, it makes a bigger difference than I
thought it could. The mileage on this thing has been pretty consistant
and dismal at 431wh/mile. I haven't determined where the issue is
dragging brakes, alignment, wasted energy as motor fights itself at low
rpms, or drivers lead poisoning.
If I had it to do again...
and I am planning this, it would/will get dual 9" with the series
parallel shifting zilla, With that, I think a zilla 1K would be fine.
Because right now I have to start in second and shift to third a lot.
When it had 17 batteries I just left it in 3rd and used 2nd only when I
wanted to impress. Alternatively I have been looking into the idea of
making a gear/belt/chain/box that connects two 9" motors side by side in
the gas tank area to the input of the rear end. Then I would put the
zilla back their running the cables thru the old gastank sending unit
access hole and have all batteries under the hood.
Another mistake I made was to mount the batteries in trays made from
angle-iron. I figured they were sealed and i lived in sunny california
so a box was unnecessary. Well 3 days after thanksgiving, it got cold,
my range dropped in 1/2. Put your batteries in boxes with fans and
heaters, even if they are sealed. Leave enough height above the
batteries for room for regulators if you use them. They also don't like
moisture.
While we are talking about mistakes, I made one more. I mounted the
zilla under hood and up high like seen it a lot of album photos. It is
not sealed, some water got in and took out the 15V gate drive power
supply. Here is where I learned how great it is to work with Otmar as he
fixed it and got it back to me in short order.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Off the original topic I guess, but you're saying AUTOCROSS is more for the
masses than DRAG RACING? I guess I don't know the stats, but autocross
cars need to turn and brake and handle. Drag cars need to go straight and
eventually stop. Guys I know go down the 1/4 mile once in a while, but
never out on a road course. Maybe I just hang in the wrong circles. Guess
I'm not sure of you exact point, but is autocross more popular, cheaper,
entry level, watched than drag racing?
Later,
Darin
BadFishRacing
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Mike Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 23:59:21 -0500
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: SCCA Problems with Electrics
Incorrectly posted in the other thread...
Yeah, so about the battery meltdown thing. I must say that I think it's
time
we EVers take racing and the exposure we give to our EVs in public forums
serious consideration. The hobby built, duct tape and spit cars do more
damage to the public perception of EVs than they do good, whether it be in
public shows or in racing events. The damage Dave described is a perfect
example. Lead acid batteries, both flooded and SLA should be secured in
sealed vented compartments and isolated from the passenger compartment -
period.
20 years ago it was cool enough just to have a car that ran on batteries
and
to make sure people knew it. Big giant "this car is electric" lettering and
all that. Nowadays the bar is much higher to achieve the same "wow". We
absolutely must be diligent in putting our best feet forward in regards to
safety and performance if we are to achieve any sort of peer status.
As for racing, NEDRA in cooperation with NHRA achieved this with obvious
success. I would submit that due to the "racing for the masses" dimension
of auto-crossing, the stakes are much higher. The potential public exposure
of EVs (especially with the proliferation of SCCA events) is much more
mainstream, and press both good and bad will have greater impact.
That being said, we must keep the bar at a level that will ensure that
safety and performance are not sacrificed under any circumstances, even if
it means smaller fields of cars initially. We must be good stewards of EVs
and the technology that makes them possible, and not be irresponsible just
to be inclusive.
That was the main thrust behind EVAutoX. For those of you with experience
in
these areas we could sure use all the help we can get.
Regards,
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
(877) 841-9730
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: RE: SCCA Problems with Electrics
>I can't see how a few battery meltdowns could get you banned from a track
>because of the cost of repairing it. After all gasoline powered cars catch
>of fire and blow up on the track all the time.
>
>
>>From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>Subject: SCCA Problems with Electrics
>>Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 08:56:08 -0800 (PST)
>>
>><http://sccaforums.com/forums/permalink/222005/221933/ShowThread.aspx#2219
33>
>>Quoted from http://www.sccaforums.com:
>>Two years ago at the SCCA convention someone brought up the idea in
>>the main Town Hall meeting about electric race cars. He basically
>>sort of accused the SCCA of not bothering to care about electric race
>>cars in general and said we needed to be exploring it. Then
>>someone from Arizona (IIRC) said their region had several folks who had
>>tried electric race cars but that they had several have battery
>>meltdowns on track and they were banned from at least one track because
>>of the damage and cleanup problems from this kind of failure. I
>>can only imagine that even if you got the necessary monitoring down to
>>prevent this that you'd still have to worry about the problems caused
>>by wrecks.
>>Anyway, the "meltdown" problem is one that should
>>definitely be carefully considered for autocross use since it's pretty
>>easy to lose sites these days and very hard to get new ones. All
>>that said, the idea of building an electric autocross car is fairly
>>intriguing. Think about the ramifications of being able to dial
>>your power delivery up and down based on how many runs you plan to take
>>and how long the course is. The tire cost debate would go out the
>>window compared to the battery cost debate, though! I used to
>>race electric RC off road buggies and believe me, you haven't seen
>>anything like the battery wars we could see in autocross with a popular
>>electric class!
>>
>>The whole thread:
>><http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/222005/ShowThread.aspx>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________________________________
__________
>>Looking for earth-friendly autos?
>>Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
>>http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't waste time standing in line-try shopping online. Visit Sympatico /
> MSN Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just mount a big air horn on your car like my 4 trumpet 130db model. It will
drown out other noises!
:-)
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- rod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ian,
> I don't have the technology to upload a squealing Curtis sample.
> Suffice it to say if I was building a car from the ground up again I would be
> looking for a quiet model. E.g. Zilla 1K. Very much cooler in the parking
> lot.
> Rod
>
> > From:
> > Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To:
> > ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Date:
> > Yesterday 10:50:34
> >
> > Could someone upload a sample of what this squeal sounds like? I'd
> > like to know if people are being picky or if it's something that
> > would drive me crazy or to the verge of embarrassment to have in my
> > own car. I've got server space to host it if someone sends me an
> > audio file. Or if someone has a youtube or other video up with this
> > sound, please point me to it.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Question number 1. ( I couldn't even get a definitive answer from ADC) On
> the 9" ADC motor, they tell you to hook your juice to A1 and S1, and jump
> A2 to S2. In my situation it was easier to put juice to A2 and S2 and
> jumper A1 to S1.
> Is there any difference or problem with that? It would appear to be fine.
Nope, same-same, the motor doesn't care. It also doesn't matter which
terminal is positive and which is negative.
In fact, if you want the motor to spin in the opposite direction you need
to connect the juice to A1 & S2 and jump A2 & S1 (or vice versa). Though,
if you want the motor to spin in the opposite direction on a permanent
basis (not just an electrical reverse) you'll need to advance the brushes
in the opposite direction.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/9/2007 6:49:27 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Well 3 days after thanksgiving, it got cold,
my range dropped in 1/2. Put your batteries in boxes with fans and
heaters, even if they are sealed.>>>>
I've asked this before without getting an answer.....
Does it hurt lead-acid batteries to operate them in a cold (say 15 degrees
overnight) EV for short trips, using a heater as you go, followed by a
recharge. I'd expect less range and maybe a bit less top speed but does it
shorten
the life of the pack to do this?
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
1972 VW Van - to be converted this year!
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is really interesting news! Hope it passes the remaining hurdles,
and please keep us posted.
Darin
Steven Lough wrote:
we shall call House Bill 1820. Which on this Day March 7th at or around
10 pm PASSED the Washington State House of Representatives
94 TO 0 !!!!! And there was much rejoicing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
Was it that they were cold when discharging or they were cold
when you charged them up and they didn't take a full charge? I have
heard it both ways on posts...
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:15
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: battery life in cold months?
In a message dated 3/9/2007 6:49:27 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Well 3 days after thanksgiving, it got cold, my range dropped in 1/2.
Put your batteries in boxes with fans and heaters, even if they are
sealed.>>>>
I've asked this before without getting an answer.....
Does it hurt lead-acid batteries to operate them in a cold (say 15
degrees
overnight) EV for short trips, using a heater as you go, followed by a
recharge. I'd expect less range and maybe a bit less top speed but does
it shorten the life of the pack to do this?
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
1972 VW Van - to be converted this year!
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers
free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What was the law? What great step did it accomplish? Will it pass the
senate and then the governor?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darin - at - metrompg.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:27
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: One Small Step for NEV's - One GIANT Step for Electric CARS
This is really interesting news! Hope it passes the remaining hurdles,
and please keep us posted.
Darin
Steven Lough wrote:
> we shall call House Bill 1820. Which on this Day March 7th at or
> around 10 pm PASSED the Washington State House of Representatives
> 94 TO 0 !!!!! And there was much rejoicing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/9/2007 7:46:05 AM Mountain Standard Time, jody.d
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Was it that they were cold when discharging or they were cold
when you charged them up and they didn't take a full charge? I have
heard it both ways on posts...>>>>
Both actually.... Here in Colorado Springs, the average Dec/Jan/Feb temps
are around 15 at night and 3- to 40 in the daytime. Some of the EV Listers
have commented on "putting up" their EVs in the Winter. My question is: Am I
abusing my battery pack by operating my vehicle (short trips - 25% or less DoD
)in these cold temperatures?
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
1972 VW Van - to be converted this year!
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Finn John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:58 PM
Subject: Jaguar XJ6 EV?
> Hi everybody! My name's Finn John, I live about 10 miles out of Corvallis,
Ore., where I work,
>snip<
> So, thinks I, maybe I should look at converting the Jag.
>
> Now, this is a 4,000-pound car, heavier than most of the electric
conversions I've been able to track down data on. But the smog-tuned
4.2-liter Jaguar I-6 only puts out around 100 peak horsepower in top
condition, and I'm probably only getting 80 out of it now. That's not too
far off of the peak power outputs of some of the 9" DC motors. I guess I'd
have to run 144 volts through it to get that, which would mean buying a few
extra Optima Red Tops, but I could handle that.
Optima RedTops are NOT a good choice for EV's - you will need to use YT's or
something like those, that have a deep-drawdown capability. And range is
going to be severely limited using AGM batteries with a heavy car.
> So my first question is, does that sound like it could be done?
Of course, it can be done - question is, how much money do you want to
spend?!!!
>And if so, would it have the 30-mile range I need to get to work and back?
Probably not, unless you use an A/C system (expensive). Victor, could you
comment on the appropriate A/C system for somethoing like this?
> My next question is, can I run an electric motor through an automatic
transmission? The car has a Borg-Warner Model 66, a fairly inefficient
3-speed slushbox pushing a 2.88:1 rear end. Would this drivetrain absorb too
much of the motor's output to effectively drive the car?
I'll defer to others with more car experience on this one.
> Fourth question: Anybody have a ball-park guess as to how many miles per
KwH I'd be looking at with a car like this? Nothing precise, just trying to
get some idea of what it'll cost to run. If it's high enough, it may
actually pencil to convert a smaller car and keep the Jag intact. I don't
need much in the way of performance, 50 mph will do. Most of my commute is
on back roads.
>
> Thanks a million for any help and advice you can give!
>
> --Finn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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10:58 AM
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Tune in tomorrow for the answers to these and many other tantalizing
questions!
On 3/9/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
What was the law? What great step did it accomplish? Will it pass the
senate and then the governor?
Steven Lough wrote:
> we shall call House Bill 1820. Which on this Day March 7th at or
> around 10 pm PASSED the Washington State House of Representatives
> 94 TO 0 !!!!! And there was much rejoicing.
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----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:14 AM
Subject: battery life in cold months?
> In a message dated 3/9/2007 6:49:27 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Well 3 days after thanksgiving, it got cold,
> my range dropped in 1/2. Put your batteries in boxes with fans and
> heaters, even if they are sealed.>>>>
>
>
> I've asked this before without getting an answer.....
>
> Does it hurt lead-acid batteries to operate them in a cold (say 15 degrees
> overnight) EV for short trips, using a heater as you go, followed by a
> recharge. I'd expect less range and maybe a bit less top speed but does
it shorten
> the life of the pack to do this?
> Hi Matt;
Doesn't SEEM to. I have had the same extreame weather conditions you
describe in CT, too.You just have to live with crappy range, sagging severly
under load, all that fun stuff. Keeping the car in a semi-heated garage and
using it EVeryday seemed to keep things a bit warmer, but after the weekend
I had to go thrrough a "Rewarming" for a few daze to get a usable range
back. Of course charge, charge, charge! As the batteries need it all the
more. I'm sure, like a gas car in cold, your range/efficiency goes to hell?
As far as KW per mile?What drove back to my Prius in REALLY cold weather was
more the crappy heater, that couldn't keep up in zero weather, where my 01
Prius miliage sagged into the high 30's! Cold weather is tough. But not as
bad as 90-100 all the time! I can dress for cold, it goes away in a few
weaks, and ranges go back up.
So I don't think badd-eries really care, as long as, like us, they are
fed and kept relatively warm.
My two degreez worth
Bob
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Quick last minute reminder - I'll be arriving Chicago at around 2PM today
and will be there until Sunday around noon. I already have plans tonight
with one of the fine Chicagoland EVers but I'm sure we have room for
more... Anyone who wants to get together feel free to call my cell at
615-308-5670.
Matt Kenigson
austinev.org/evalbum/882
On 3/5/07, Matt Kenigson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Howdy,
I see there are a bunch of EVs in the album around the Chicagoland
area. I'll be in Chicago for a meeting on Saturday. Is there anyone
who might want to get together and trade notes, chat about CURRENT
EVents? I'd love to see some more EVs, so I try to visit folks
whenever I travel. This time around, though, I prolly won't get a car
unless there's someone outside of a reasonable cab fare range that I'd
like to visit. Wish you could rent EVs in Chicago.
Anyway, anyone out there interested in getting together? You can
reply off-list.
Matt Kenigson
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/882
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Ralph Merwin wrote:
I'm curious how this works. If two breakers are in series, even though
they are setup to "trip together", one of them will start opening before
the other, and it will see the full pack voltage.
The damage caused to a contact by arcing is a function of the energy
produced by the arc. Energy is measured in watt-seconds (current x
voltage x time).
At 60 Hz, the arc automatically stops at the next zero-crossing (every 8
msec). So, the time is fixed. They design the contact to survive 8 msec
of arcing at the rated voltage and current.
When you gang two breakers, you're right -- they don't switch off at
*exactly* the same time. But the mechanical connection insures that
whichever one opens first won't have more than 4 msec before the other
one opens. The one open breaker can sustain 2x the voltage for 1/2 the
time, until the second one opens.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 4:35 AM
Subject: RE: Kilovac EV-200 as safety disconnect?
> After half an hour Googling I still had no hits for "gas filled" in
> combination with Czonka,
> so I started clicking away at the Czonka Contactor hits and first found
> several specs saying that it was a sealed contactor, without specifying
what
> was inside, like:
> http://www.answers.com/topic/contactor200ampsealed-jpg
>
> Then I suddenly stumbled upon this site - is this the original (Chinese?)
> producer or a copy-cat of the Czonka?
> They are all Vacuum or SF-6 filled (the high voltage versions) except the
> larger contactors in the EV range which are..... Hydrogen filled!
> http://www.blueandgreen.co.kr/korean/product_list.asp?CateCode=600
> Hi EVerybody;
Hydrogen filled!!?? Wasn't that what helped bring down the
Hindenberg!?You want THAT in your sealed contactors? Not some more inert
gas? Howbout Helium? And it would lighten up the car a little<g>? Have had
enough batteries disasembled over the years with the hydrogen effect. Like
throwing gas on a fire to put it out?
My two Badd-ery explosions worth
Bob
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> Hydrogen filled!!?? Wasn't that what helped bring down the
> Hindenberg!?You want THAT in your sealed contactors? Not some more inert
> gas? Howbout Helium? And it would lighten up the car a little<g>? Have had
> enough batteries disasembled over the years with the hydrogen effect. Like
> throwing gas on a fire to put it out?
>
> My two Badd-ery explosions worth
>
As long as there is only hidrogen (and no oxigen)
in there, no problem.
--
Eduardo Kaftanski
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ev.nn.cl/
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I am in eugene OR and recently aquired a 1997 Solectria Force and abosolutely
love it. Interested in also completing a conversion possibly in the near
future. Would love to have any contacts with fellow EV'ers in Corvallis and
Eugene OR area....I can be reached directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED], thanks
- garth
"Will Beckett (becketts)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Have you run into Otmar
yet? He lives in Corvallis now. He is very helpful
showing people how to do conversions.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Finn John
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:58 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Jaguar XJ6 EV?
Hi everybody! My name's Finn John, I live about 10 miles out of Corvallis,
Ore., where I work, and I'm making plans to have some sort of electric
commuter vehicle before the end of this summer. Would any of you guys have
time to give me a bit of advice on the whole thing? Sorry if I'm asking
stupid questions, but I had to start somewhere.
Initially I wanted to find an old Fiat 500 or similar 900-pound unit with a
dead motor and go from there, but then I realized I really don't use my
Jaguar (an '84 Series 3, given to me by my dad, sentimental value, etc.) for
anything other than commuting and taking my son to school. My wife has a
Honda hybrid that we use for all our longer trips. And to top it off, the
Jag's engine at 220,000 miles is starting to show signs of needing to be
rebuilt.
So, thinks I, maybe I should look at converting the Jag.
Now, this is a 4,000-pound car, heavier than most of the electric
conversions I've been able to track down data on. But the smog-tuned
4.2-liter Jaguar I-6 only puts out around 100 peak horsepower in top
condition, and I'm probably only getting 80 out of it now. That's not too
far off of the peak power outputs of some of the 9" DC motors. I guess I'd
have to run 144 volts through it to get that, which would mean buying a few
extra Optima Red Tops, but I could handle that.
So my first question is, does that sound like it could be done? And if so,
would it have the 30-mile range I need to get to work and back?
My next question is, can I run an electric motor through an automatic
transmission? The car has a Borg-Warner Model 66, a fairly inefficient
3-speed slushbox pushing a 2.88:1 rear end. Would this drivetrain absorb too
much of the motor's output to effectively drive the car?
Fourth question: Anybody have a ball-park guess as to how many miles per KwH
I'd be looking at with a car like this? Nothing precise, just trying to get
some idea of what it'll cost to run. If it's high enough, it may actually
pencil to convert a smaller car and keep the Jag intact. I don't need much
in the way of performance, 50 mph will do. Most of my commute is on back
roads.
Thanks a million for any help and advice you can give!
--Finn
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
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10:58 AM
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--- Begin Message ---
Peter,
Yea, the same thought came to me, but I thought it'd be too confusing to get
into and I am not good at making diagrams. Your basic understanding of the
theory is correct. However, the gap between the pole and frame will introduce
reluctance where you do not want it. The effect will be increased leakage
where some flux from the field would link without passing through the main air
gap. And by pushing the pole face closer to the armature makes a lower
reluctance leakage path for armature reaction flux which could cause some field
weakening and commutation difficulty. It is just good basic practice make a
solid joint of pole to frame.
Jeff
Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ok, so enough people have told me to never put anything between the
pole shoes and motor housing that I'm inclined to believe they're
right :)
I have a little bit of knowledge about magnetic circuit theory, just
enough to be dangerous and do silly things like painting the back of
the pole shoes and inside of the housing. The theory I know tells me
that putting something between the pole shoes and housing makes no
difference to the magnetic flux at the air gap but since this is never
done there must be something I'm overlooking. Maybe someone more
experienced ( Lee?) can point out the mistake in my reasoning below.
armature
----------------
| |
> >
>Rg >Rg
> >
| |
/ \+ / \-
( F1) ( F2)
\ /- \ /+
| |
> >
>Rp >Rp
> >
| |
----------------
Motor casing
The model above shows a simple model of the magnetics in the motor. F1
and F2 are the fields, Rg is the air gap reluctance, Rp is the
reluctance I introduced when painting behind the pole shoes.
Reluctance is defined as R = l/(mu*A), where l is length , mu is
permeability and A is cross sectional area.
So, when I introduced Rp the reluctance of Rg should have been reduced
by the value of Rp due to the distance between armature and housing
being fixed. ( I presume mu of paint to be the same as air)
The same holds true for the magneto motive force across Rg, it is
reduce by the magneto motive force across Rp.
F1+F2 = F(RG)+F(RG)+F(Rp) +F(Rp)
or
2F(Rg) = F1+F2 - 2F(Rp)
Since Flux = F/R the flux in the air gap should therefore remain the same.
So someone please tear my reasoning apart. :)
-Peter
On 3/8/07, Jeff Major wrote:
> Eric, Peter and all,
>
> There should never be any non-magnetic material between the pole and the
> frame, such as paint, paper (Nomex) or air. Sometimes steel shims are used
> between the pole and frame to adjust the main airgap distance (clearance
> between the armature and pole face). Called pole shims. Made from steel or
> iron. Adding pole shims reduces air gap which increases flux at light loads
> and therefore reduces light load speed in series motors. Doesn't affect it
> much at heavy loads.
>
> Nomex (high temp paper) is often used to insulate field coils against frame
> and pole. But if it was between the frame and pole, someone made a mistake.
>
> Jeff
>
> Eric Poulsen wrote:
> On my motor, the paper was behind the pole shoe _windings, but NOT on
> the metal base that bolted to the motor housing. In fact, there were
> some steel shims there.
>
> Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
> > After giving it some more thought, I could swear there was a thick
> > sheet of nomex paper behind the pole shoes when I took it apart. Since
> > you've presumable taken more of these apart than I have, tell me if
> > I'm just hallucinating.
> >
> > -Peter
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
>
>
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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I see there are also a few more videos of the machine in action, posted
on the BugE site (and at YouTube):
http://www.blueskydsn.com/BugE_First_Movie.html
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David,
Thanks for posting this link. It is a fun thread.
<http://sccaforums.com/forums/permalink/222005/221933/ShowThread.aspx#221933>
Quoted from http://www.sccaforums.com:
Two years ago at the SCCA convention someone brought up the idea in
the main Town Hall meeting about electric race cars. He basically
sort of accused the SCCA of not bothering to care about electric race
cars in general and said we needed to be exploring it. Then
someone from Arizona (IIRC) said their region had several folks who had
tried electric race cars but that they had several have battery
meltdowns on track and they were banned from at least one track because
of the damage and cleanup problems from this kind of failure. I
can only imagine that even if you got the necessary monitoring down to
prevent this that you'd still have to worry about the problems caused
by wrecks.
Let's see what the shared knowledge of the EV list can answer whether
battery powered cars are dangerous to track surfaces.
The most obvious suspect is flooded lead acid batteries. I have not worked
with these much. I know not to get the acid in my eyes, on my clothes, on my
tender bits (and I do not think I want to know how some one found that
out<G>) but what about splashed on the skin? Does it hurt? How quickly do
you need to wash off the acid? Will it kill me? Will water cure me?
What about a spill on the track? Will it damage the pavement? Will it
discolor the pavement? How quickly? Will water get rid of the problem?
I know there are a number of Arizona list members. Have any of you heard
about battery powered cars damaging a race track?
I have a vague recollection that at one of the APS EV races, there was a
sodium sulfur battery pack that cracked open. The sodium sulfur battery had
an operating range of 572 to 673 degrees F. If the hot electrolyte spilled
on the track, that might do some serious damage. Where ever I heard the
story mentioned a nice cloud of toxic smoke. Anybody know the facts?
Any other suspects? The only other battery that I can think of that has
enough liquid to spill is nickel-cadmium. Anyone using EV ni-cads have
answers about how dangerous to pavement or persons a spill is?
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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