EV Digest 6542
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: BugE again
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: More details on the dual chemistry NiMH (or NiCD) / Lead Acid
AGM Pack
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EV Towing Damage. Motor and Transmission Help
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: datsun 1200
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: datsun 1200
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Datsun 1200
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Datsun heater removal
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: datsun 1200
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV Towing Damage. Motor and Transmission Help
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) low-end torque/power-efficiency
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Reviving batteries, part 2
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV Towing Damage. Motor and Transmission Help
by Aaron Quinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Datsun heater removal
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: One Small Step for NEV's - One GIANT Step for Electric CARS
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Reading Material
by "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry,
And you expected different?
Of course not, but due to the lack of information available, I have to use
what IS available. I may be ignorant, but not stupid. Thanks for making me
feel all warm and fuzzy inside. If you will look at my very next 3 words you
will see that.
It is realistic, but unfortunate...
Just how many buyers do you think he needs?
Frankly, I don't care how many buyers he needs, but the more the better
right? I simply stated that with a higher price, there will be fewer buyers.
Do you disagree?
Others will assemble them probably with improvements.
Yes, this is the whole reason I don't want to buy a completed unit since I
am willing to sacrifice range for speed and power. Thats why I stated in the
beginning I want to buy a kit. There's no sense in buying parts only to
replace them right away. That is wasteful.
... not the Chinese, ect junk we have now that doesn't last more than a
couple months.
I have a Chinese motor kit on my bicycle right now and it works fine. I've
been riding it for over a year and already put over 400 miles on it. It
works as well as the day I installed it. (Wilderness Energy Crystal
something motor..) In fact, the bike is falling apart around it.
... as car costs go thru the roof like they are now.
I can get a brand new Hyundai Accent for about $7500. How is that going
through the roof? Thats cheap! Thats basically the same price it was 5 years
ago. No I am not going to get one even if they are only $5000 or $3000.
The difference is running costs.
What about them? You provide nothing to go with that statement. To me the
running costs are insignificant anyway, especially when compared to
operating an ICE vehicle. It is the initial purchase cost that is the most
significant cost.
I hate to bring this up now, but I can't help but feel that participating
here on the EVDL is not a fun thing to do. I have tried several times to
share my (minimal) knowledge and opinion, and EVERY time someone comes along
with a negative attitude to try and discredit me and my *opinion*. I have
belonged to many online forums, but this is unique to this list. I can see
why many of the long-time professional EVers I know do not participate. I
think I will follow their example: read, but do not write. It's too bad it
took me this long to figure it out.
Regards,
Dave O.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you are just better off to simply use NiMH and forget the
lead-acid. It sounds like you are trying to get the weight advantage of
NiMH, but overcome the very low discharge rates of older D-cell sized
NiMH cells. But that is outdated. SubC cells have been able to
discharge at high rates for a few years, and the recent Intellect
D-cells can do 10C discharge rates (90Amps).
(And btw, I remind anyone interested in a NiMH pack that I've offered to
the list at $900 per 120v-9Ah block, the equavalent of a pack of 10
optima yellow-tops would be about $5,000, and such a pack is going into
the NiMHybrid (NimbleMotorsportsHybrid))
If anything, there might be some value to having a hybrid pack with a
small low-voltage lead-acid pack that can dump a LOT of amps to get the
car to accelerate quickly, and then switch over to the NiMH for normal
operation. Perhaps use a simple contactor controller for the lead-acid
so you are not limited by a controllers ratings and losses at low voltage.
Jack
Steve Powers wrote:
The idea came from
"How to Convert to an Electric Car" by Ted Lucas, 1980 edition. But the book
gives little to no detail except that it was done in the past. The book is also out of
print, so good luck finding a copy.
One friend of mine (locat to Atlanta) is actually doing this in his EV, but I haven't seen it in person to get details.
Another friend local to Atlanta used 2 x 10 F cells across each AGM and switched them on only under light load and pulled 30 A. It worked well for him.
Charging is an issue. If 84 cells, use 14 7.2 V high output RC chargers (per string). This is a lot of wiring, and it needs to be off board because it is a lot of weight.
On of my original concepts was to string the cells in series (not parallel). Maybe 40 - 80 cells in a string to get 48 - 96 V. Then, run this though a high power buck converter / regulated power supply that can put out 50 - 80 Amps with high current dropout and low voltage (input) cutoff. It's a DC power high current battery charger with 12.8 V constant voltage output. Could work I think, but a lot of work and expensive to implement. Put one of those on each battery. Charge the series strings of NiMH. No parallel NiMH cells at all in the system..
Further back than this, the idea came from the fact that you get more energy out of a batt when you discharge at low rates, so I took 2 batts out of a 120 V string, taking it down to 96 V. Then, use them at a much slower discharge rate to charge the 96 V pack (inverter / charger combo). By doing this, I increased the amount of energy storage I could get out of those 2 batts. But, there are a lot of losses in the system. For only 2 batts out of 10, with 10% loss, the gain is negligable. Anyway, I may still do that, but this NIMH idea where you keep the NiMH strings to a 1-2 C discharge to maximize energy usage looks good for now.
Charging is really the only issue.
Steve
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is totally wrong..
All you have to do is remove the safety high voltage jumper on the drives
side of the HV pack.
This kills all high voltage to the car.
Then if you need to you take off the 12 volts Cable.. then the car is
totally disconnected.
You are never supposed to even touch the high voltage cables.
We have to add in the high current taps to support the PHEV feed in point.
All the hybrids have clearly marked ORANGE high voltage disconnects. All you
need to do is remove them or on the Fords toggle over to disconnect, And for
shipping you toggle to disconnect pull it out.. there's a High voltage fuse
inside the switch.. then drop it back into the socket 90 Deg off, and it's
ready for transport. The Prius you just flip it down to disconnect and
remove it, for totally visual levels of disconnect.
I can supply photos of both If we need them here on the EV list.
This is kinda of a PHEV Thing... So upon request.. I can upload them.
I am still amazed at the level of Scare and complete paranoia over the
voltages that run in a Hybrid.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
> My body shop just received a Prius to be work on. The owner and manual
said
> it is recommended to disconnected the battery by removing a cable off the
> battery pack before you work on this car, WHY? Did they not design the
> vehicle so the battery will disconnect back inside a double insulated
> battery container when you turn off the ignition switch or have other
means
> of disconnecting?
>
> The work is not being done on the battery container but on a front fender.
>
> This body shop refurnish all the sheet metal and frame where all the old
> paint was remove and sandblasted my EV while the batteries were still
> connected together, but was disconnected by the safety contactors, fuses
> and/or circuit breaker.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:31 AM
> Subject: Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 3:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
> >
> >
> > > On 10 Mar 2007 at 10:44, Rich Rudman wrote:
> > >
> > > > So we know when the brakes are being called up. I would be fun to
read
> > the data
> > > > from that crash and see Who got to what pedal....and if it was the
> > > > right
> > one.
> >
> > Hi EVerybody;
> >
> > Around here this is all in todaze news, with other gas rigs. Almost
> > EVery day, SOMEBODY, usually 80-90 years old has an issue as to Which
> > pedal
> > does WHAT? And they crash through stores, houses. Pix is on the front
page
> > of the local paper. Thank goodness they usually don't drive Hummers and
> > F-250's!
> >
> > Just happened here, to be a hybrid, rather than an old Buick or Olds.
> > Point made here by David; we hafta make sure our EV's are almost
> > foolproof.
> > Although if you stomp on the Go pedal, thinking it's the
brake......car's
> > gunna GO! Hell! You built it so it would. So be careful! EVen the best
car
> > designers can't fix that! Our Led Sleds would make great battering rams!
> >
> > My two pedals worth.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > This is a good point. The Prius "black box" has crash data, including
> > info
> > > on what pedals were down when the airbags deployed. Since there's
legal
> > > action in this case, you can just about bet that the insurance company
> > > involved will have that computer's brain picked.
> > >
> > > Regrettably, that won't be for some time, and by then the story will
be
> > > cold. You probably won't read in the newspaper or hear on television
> > > that
> > > the driver had the accelerator flat to the floor when he thought he
was
> > > on
> > > the brakes. (If indeed that's what happened, I'm not saying that it
is.)
> > >
> > > As EV proponents these sorts of news items reflect on us and our
> > > vehicles
> > to
> > > some degree. We need to be aware of them and become informed so we
can
> > > counter anti-EV arguments.
> > >
> > >
> > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > > EV List Administrator
> > >
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> > > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/716 - Release Date: 3/9/07
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Note: Nothing and no one was hurt except for my former
S-15 EV.
I sold my 86 Solar Car Corp S15 pickup yesterday. I
have been getting alot of use out of the pickup bed in
the last few weeks with landscaping so I really
regreted selling it. My new office was just too far
away to use it so I was hoping to get it to a good
home where it could get used everyday.
Kenneth showed up alot earlier then expected after
I had just driven it for a good 12-15 miles finding
the self serve carwash was closed. He test drove it
about 4-5 miles and went to get a uhaul dolly. It was
tow dollied from north texas in nuetral but about an
hour out of the final destination something went
really wrong. He was towing with a big dodge ram and
he felt a big lurch and then all was smooth again as
the motor and tranmission self destructed.
I don't have any images of it yet and from what he
told me the bolts holding the shifter were gone which
let the shifter just drop into gear. I hate to see an
working EV that could have lasted me possibly years to
come get sidelined. To fix it with new parts would
cost nearly the price he paid for the vehicle which
makes it even worse.
I think I know where to send him for the motor if it
is salvagable at all but any suggestions are welcome.
Besides just random pick and pulls does anyone have an
idea of somewhere in or near colorado to get a
transmission on the cheap for an S-15 pickup? or
Anyone happen to have one just sitting around.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 10:58:27AM -0800, Rich Rudman wrote:
> This is totally wrong..
> All you have to do is remove the safety high voltage jumper on the drives
> side of the HV pack.
The disconnect in the Prius is well done. It has a reed switch built in which
opens before the HV path is broken, so that the battery ECU can open the main
contactor; This way the service disconnect never has to break any current.
The other thing that is really nice about the Prius HV strategy, is the way
it deals with contactors. It always does a close-open-close sequence to check
for stuck contactors.
Everything is so well done in the Prius, we should strive for this level of
safety in our EVs.
You can find out more along the lines here:
http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Prius_PHEV_TechInfo
Rich, you should add any codes you can fish out to this Wiki!
Thanks!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 10, 2007, at 10:50 PM, KARSTEN GOPINATH wrote:
I am debating between a 240z and a Datsun 1200 both same conditon and
same price. Which would be easier to convert? I know that White Zombie
is a Datsun 1200. Is that a pretty light chassis to start with? Any
pitfalls with the 1200 or the 240z I should know about. Thanks.
I'd go with the 1200 based on weight. If you start with a lighter car
the same performance or range or conversion cost will be less.
Now if you happen to really like 240z's, or dislike 1200's, that has to
effect your decision too! I just chose to ignore weight and start on a
Datsun 411 (its not that heavy, around 2100 lb.) If you're going to go
to the effort and cost of converting a car it needs to be one you like!
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depends on what year Z & weather fastback or sedan 1200. The lightest Z's
are the first couple of years. Then it gets heavy. The Fastback 1200 isn't
supposed to be as strong as the Sedan. Just passing on info I've heard.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "KARSTEN GOPINATH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: datsun 1200
> I am debating between a 240z and a Datsun 1200 both same conditon and
> same price. Which would be easier to convert? I know that White Zombie
> is a Datsun 1200. Is that a pretty light chassis to start with? Any
> pitfalls with the 1200 or the 240z I should know about. Thanks.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Oh Boy, Datsun 1200 stuff!
KARSTEN GOPINATH wrote:
I am debating between a 240z and a Datsun 1200 both same conditon and
same price. Which would be easier to convert? I know that White Zombie
is a Datsun 1200. Is that a pretty light chassis to start with? Any
pitfalls with the 1200 or the 240z I should know about. Thanks.
First question...is the 1200 a fastback or sedan model? The fastback was
the most popular with its swoopy styling and fastback fun, and sold at
perhaps 5 to 1 compared to the more boxy, more upright sedan. The reason
I ask this, is that fastbacks are harder to convert than sedans.
Fastbacks lack the handy trunk where batteries can be placed low in the
floor between the frame rails, and where they can be separated from the
interior driver-passenger space. Sedans on the other hand, have the
bulkhead metal structure that ties the sidewalls of the car together
just behind the rear seat back, dramatically increasing rigidity of the
body. The fastback car lacks this entirely. Back in the 70s when these
cars were new and being road tested, reporters commented on the
fastback's on-road boominess over bumps. Opposite to this, they talked
of how solid the little sedan felt considering its feather-lightness.
Both the Z Car and the 1200 fastback would be harder to convert, than a
1200 sedan.
Sidebar...I much prefer the sedan for the above stated structural
reasons, and much more. The fastback's styling does not appeal to me,
but then again, I've always loved boxy small sedans and have never cared
for swoopy-lines type styling. The fastback's one piece vacuum-formed
all plastic grill does nothing for me, and adds to the already
established el- cheapo status of the car. In contrast, the sedan's three
piece front end affair of the stainless steel grill with it argent cross
bars, and the two polished stainless steel headlight surrounds, is
clean, simple, and tends to invoke a touch of quality to the el-cheapo
car. Note that both on my White Zombie and Blue Meanie sedans
(technically referred to as coupes) both grills have received minor
cosmetic changes...the center mounted goofy big 'D' within a plastic
circle emblem is gone, and the argent bars are a painted a crisper
semi-gloss black. Next...the fastback's swoopier lines come at a price -
2 inches less headroom. The sedan's windshield is bigger and a bit more
upright...my 6ft. four brother Chris' head cleared the headliner in his
411 hp, 11 second turbo-monster 1200 sedan! From the doors forward, both
models are identical, but after that, noting else is the same. The doors
are different, the roof is different, the trunk lid, the rear bumper,
the quarter panels...everything from the fenders back, is different.
Both cars have the same dash, but the seats are different as well.
If the 1200 is a sedan, and you like a small unassuming boxy sedan (as I
do), then I'd say go for the 1200. They were very light weight at just
1587 lbs., and yet, are surprisingly structurally sound. On the other
hand, if it's a fastback, then you have to choose between two cars that
will both be a little harder to successfully convert. The stock early
240 Z weighed 2350 lbs., as Mike Willmon said, where the 1200 fastback
weighed a pinch over 1600 lbs. The Z's cast iron block (aluminum head)
2400cc inline 6 weighed about 150 lbs. more than the 1200's little 247
lb. 1200cc four, so there's more weight in the engine to remove from the
Z, but after you pull the engine on both cars, the Z still weighs about
600 lbs. more.
From Mike Willmon:
I do
not know how stout the rear end is on a 240Z or where you could get performance
parts for it.
There are two rear end sizes for the Z...the R200, and the R300. Both
are pretty stout, but the R300 is the beefiest by far.
If one considers the Datsun 510 sedan, it also uses the same style rear
end, only the lightest duty version, the R100. 510 fanatics often put
R200 Z rear ends in them.
There are tons of go fast parts still available for both the 1200 and Z.
Both cars were champions in their respective race classes, so lots of
racing goodies were developed.
The Z Car was Datsun's higher quality sports car of the early 70s, and
still has a huge club based following. In fact, I was the guest speaker
again at the Northwest Z club's meeting this past Wednesday. There are Z
Car clubs all over the place, and thousands of loyal owners eager to
share parts and information. The Z Car was a sales sensation when it was
introduced, with a 6-10 month waiting list just to get one. Owners loved
them, and kept them polished and garaged for the most part. My oldest
brother, Roger, had a hotrodded '72 240Z with triple webbers, lowered
suspension, etc. that he absolutely loved...that was back in the late
seventies. Now that he is retired, 30 years later he has found a new
hobby returning to the Z Car he loved. He now has three of them, one of
which is being totally restored from a gutted shell, up. He found a
pristine condition Z, body wise, in Arizona, brought it back to Oregon,
and for the last two years has been turning it into a new Z Car.
The little 1200 on the other hand, was a disposable econo-car that was
largely purchased by young, first time buyers. As such, they were almost
never garaged, and they were pretty much an appliance that got beat up
and loaded up with kids, dogs, and whatever...think Geo Metro. Most
1200s are gone now, but a lot of Zs remain.
My ideas....
(1) Get the Z, have Jim build it a Siamese 9, put in an R300 turbo rear
end, fit some high power batteries in it, and go run 12's at the drag
strip!
(2) Get the 1200, learn from my mistakes (all listed the 'White Zombie
History' pages) do the right performance mods, add a few new ones of
your own, and go tear it up at the drag strip.
(3) Get the Z and make a super clean electric Z that you can display at
car shows and drive with pride.
(4) Get the 1200 and build a fun, spunky street sedan with minimal costs
involved.
See Ya...John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering if anyone had any advice before I pull the heater out
of my Datsun 411. It looks strait forward, but that doesn't mean there
are no gotta points. This appears to be the same heater used in the
Datsun 520 Pickups and I know some of those have been converted.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone converting a car must understand that the factory weight of the
car INCLUDES the gasoline engine and transmission, and when you COMPARE
one car to the next, you must take into account that you will REMOVE the
gasoline engine and maybe transmssion. The 6-cylinder 240Z engine is
most certainly heavier then the small 4-cyl, and this also means the
suspension and braking are DESIGNED to handle more weight.
So the best and easiest car to convert is one that has the biggest and
heaviest gasoline engine, because you will REMOVE it.
Remember the Toyota Echo, the engine weighed only 125lbs.
It is also the case that when using flooded batteries, you need them
OUTSIDE the passenger compartment, so hatchbacks and wagons that offer
space, but inside the passenger area are a problem. One reason small
trucks make good conversions.
So to answer Karsten's question, "which will be EASIER to convert?",
in my view the answer is very clear, the 240Z.
A 240Z is also a more desireable car in general, something to consider
if you ever sell the car.
Jack
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Depends on what year Z & weather fastback or sedan 1200. The lightest Z's
are the first couple of years. Then it gets heavy. The Fastback 1200 isn't
supposed to be as strong as the Sedan. Just passing on info I've heard.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "KARSTEN GOPINATH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: datsun 1200
I am debating between a 240z and a Datsun 1200 both same conditon and
same price. Which would be easier to convert? I know that White Zombie
is a Datsun 1200. Is that a pretty light chassis to start with? Any
pitfalls with the 1200 or the 240z I should know about. Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mark
Wow what a bummer! I've seen a few "left in first gear
towing disasters". Although most just admit they had
bumped it into first while getting something from the
cab, or just plain forgot to take it out of gear.
Never heard the "missing bolts" one before so that's a
new one for me. Why can't they fall into 4th gear
though huh? Guess we just don't hear about those
ones, lol.
I went to the EV photo album (hey Mike what an awesome
tool for me to get info from) and saw you "were"
running the FB1 ADC motor. I don't know if "I" was
the one you were talking about, but Psst, shhh, (what
EVer you do don't have it sent to that evil motor hack
down under K)(he'd just send the only good part) (the
fields, into a burn out oven) LMAO!
A lot will depend on whether the fields got hurt as to
the cost of the repair. I'd be able to save the guy a
few buck over the cost of a new motor but this is not
a repair for the faint of heart. EVerything but the
coils will have to be replaced and even those will
probably need at least some attention.
I'd imagine there are those who might think I sit here
salivating at my computer as I wait for posts like
this, but honestly it breaks my heart when I hear this
kinda thing. I get contacted weekly (if not daily
anymore) by people looking at becoming EV'ers. The
first thing out of my mouth is I want to help them
become a satisfied EV'er not "just" an EVer. I just
sent 3 new people to the EVDL and the photo album last
week in fact, so they could become "informed
consumers".
Anyway I just can't help but think this guys feeling
just a tad anti-EV right now, even if this was an
almost act of God accident!
I'd be more than happy to have a look at pics for the
guy if nothing else, although I've got a pretty good
idea of what it looks like already!
Anyway let me know if I can help on at least 1/2 the
issue here.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
PS: Man don't you hate when you sell something that
you put a bunch of love into and they just beat it all
to hell? If anyone knows how you feel it's me, I get
that all the time, LMAO. I got a whole list of hacks
that destroy my stuff, or at least try, hehehe!
--- Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Note: Nothing and no one was hurt except for my
> former
> S-15 EV.
> I sold my 86 Solar Car Corp S15 pickup yesterday. I
> have been getting alot of use out of the pickup bed
> in
> the last few weeks with landscaping so I really
> regreted selling it. My new office was just too far
> away to use it so I was hoping to get it to a good
> home where it could get used everyday.
> Kenneth showed up alot earlier then expected
> after
> I had just driven it for a good 12-15 miles finding
> the self serve carwash was closed. He test drove it
> about 4-5 miles and went to get a uhaul dolly. It
> was
> tow dollied from north texas in nuetral but about an
> hour out of the final destination something went
> really wrong. He was towing with a big dodge ram and
> he felt a big lurch and then all was smooth again as
> the motor and tranmission self destructed.
> I don't have any images of it yet and from what he
> told me the bolts holding the shifter were gone
> which
> let the shifter just drop into gear. I hate to see
> an
> working EV that could have lasted me possibly years
> to
> come get sidelined. To fix it with new parts would
> cost nearly the price he paid for the vehicle which
> makes it even worse.
> I think I know where to send him for the motor if it
> is salvagable at all but any suggestions are
> welcome.
> Besides just random pick and pulls does anyone have
> an
> idea of somewhere in or near colorado to get a
> transmission on the cheap for an S-15 pickup? or
> Anyone happen to have one just sitting around.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark Hastings
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I was trying to determine the best gear ratio for my conversion.
I have some torque-efficiency and power-efficiency curves at various rpm
for my ac42 motor up at my website:
http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency%20vs%20power.jpg
and
http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency-torque.jpg
It looks like with my projected 700kg conversion I'm gonna be using less than
10kW most of the time, so it becomes important to know what the low end of
these
curves look like. Does anyone know how the torque-efficiency or
power-efficiency curves should drop off as power or torque goes to 0? The
dynamometer
data on most of the curves doesnt go below 10kW.
Thanks
Jeremy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This ended up loooong, sorry.
I took 20 18ah gel batteries from a used UPS and tested them all for residual
voltage. Two of them had over 5 volts, most had less than one volt.
Those two I could charge using a wall 1.2 amp cheap adapter to almost 12.5
volts in about 6 hours and both can now make a small treadmill motor turn
for several minutes without diping under 11.5 volts.
I tried several of the other batts that had one volt or less and I could
never get any over 7 volts so I am taking them to a recicling shop.
I also got a set of 8 similar batts from another bad UPS but of much newer
vintage. All 8 had 3 to 6 volts of residual voltage and so far I have
managed to revive two of them by hooking them up to the wall adapter
for several hours slowly rising the output voltaje of the adapter and
watching voltage until it stops dropping, then upping the volts.
The adapter is a cheap unregulated adapter, so in the '7.5' volts
position it outputs 14.5 volts without load, in the '9' volts position
outputs more than 16 and in the '12' volts position outputs over 20.
I assume that's normal? After two days of upping the volts they are
now resting at 12 volts and I can hook up the motor and they wont dip
below 11.5.
I think I need a bigger charger to get them over 12.5 volts. In the
case it says to charge them at a constant 14.8 volts, but my cheap
adapter won't go over 12.5 after a while...
Still in learning mode I am :) but I now have a set of usable batts
to test the 48 volt Curtis I bought (exact same as the one in Forkenswift
according to pictures) so next week thats the next assignment...
Why was that Curtis special? It needed a different pot?
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://ev.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I normally don't have much to say on the list, but I do have a
comment about this. It doesn't help you with the motor and trans
problem (sorry about that), but it's a note for anyone that tows this
way in the future. If nothing else, it might be good information to
keep in mind.
A few months ago, I was talking with a co-worker about towing
vehicles behind an RV (if I happened to get one at some point) and he
said to tow a Jeep. That seemed like an odd choice to me so I asked
him: why a Jeep?
He explained that when someone is towing a vehicle behind an RV,
typically all 4 wheels are on the ground and it's just rolling.
Obviously, the transmission has to be in neutral, otherwise it
wouldn't move at all. The problem is, even if a vehicle is in
neutral, the output shaft of the transmission is still spinning when
it's being towed. He stated that if the car is not running, the
transmission fluid is not flowing, so the transmission (even though
it's not in gear) is still spinning and heating up the same
transmission fluid over and over. Eventually, something's going to go
wrong with it.
So, his point was that with a 4-wheel-drive Jeep, you can engage or
disengage the front and rear axles with the secondary
4-wheel/low-gear shifter. Then, the output shaft of the transmission
doesn't turn, only the differentials, but those don't need extra
cooling anyway.
When I read this message, it popped into my mind that the car was
probably at an angle (dolly towing?) and the trans fluid wasn't
completely covering the gears and he was probably traveling over 60
mph for many miles before something got too hot in the transmission
and finally broke apart.
I just looked at Uhaul's website and found this on page 5 of the tow
dolly user guide:
http://www.uhaul.com/guide/userguide-towdolly.pdf
TRANSMISSION DAMAGE TO
YOUR VEHICLE-IN-TOW
When towing a rear axle driven front engine vehicle, the drive shaft
must be disconnected to prevent transmission damage. Simply placing
the transmission in neutral is not sufficient and will not prevent
damage due to a lack of internal lubrication. You must disconnect the
drive shaft at the rear axle and tie or wire it up. The universal
joint bearing caps must be taped on to prevent loss of the bearings.
If you choose to remove the drive shaft entirely, it may be necessary
to cap the transmission tail shaft to prevent fluid loss and possible
future damage. Consult your vehicle owner's manual.
U-Haul Centers and dealers are not required to remove or reinstall
the drive shaft as part of the rental. However, some U-Haul Centers
and dealers can do this for an additional fee.
Front wheel drive vehicles need not have drive shafts disconnected
because the drive wheels are loaded on the tow dolly.
Many rear engine vehicle transaxles are damaged by towing. However
the standard transmission Volkswagen Beetle may be towed when the
shift lever is in neutral. Consult the owner's manual for tow suitability.
At 03:28 PM 03/11/2007, you wrote:
Note: Nothing and no one was hurt except for my former
S-15 EV.
I sold my 86 Solar Car Corp S15 pickup yesterday. I
have been getting alot of use out of the pickup bed in
the last few weeks with landscaping so I really
regreted selling it. My new office was just too far
away to use it so I was hoping to get it to a good
home where it could get used everyday.
Kenneth showed up alot earlier then expected after
I had just driven it for a good 12-15 miles finding
the self serve carwash was closed. He test drove it
about 4-5 miles and went to get a uhaul dolly. It was
tow dollied from north texas in nuetral but about an
hour out of the final destination something went
really wrong. He was towing with a big dodge ram and
he felt a big lurch and then all was smooth again as
the motor and tranmission self destructed.
I don't have any images of it yet and from what he
told me the bolts holding the shifter were gone which
let the shifter just drop into gear. I hate to see an
working EV that could have lasted me possibly years to
come get sidelined. To fix it with new parts would
cost nearly the price he paid for the vehicle which
makes it even worse.
I think I know where to send him for the motor if it
is salvagable at all but any suggestions are welcome.
Besides just random pick and pulls does anyone have an
idea of somewhere in or near colorado to get a
transmission on the cheap for an S-15 pickup? or
Anyone happen to have one just sitting around.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 11, 2007, at 12:27 PM, Paul G. wrote:
I was wondering if anyone had any advice before I pull the heater out
of my Datsun 411. It looks strait forward, but that doesn't mean there
are no gotta points. This appears to be the same heater used in the
Datsun 520 Pickups and I know some of those have been converted.
Never mind, I got it out. 2 screws and 2 nuts where in PITA locations
and 40 year old soft rubber seals made it seem to be stuck. My old '65
Dodge was easier, but with a little careful pushing and pulling the
Datsun 411 released its heater. Its now on the work bench awaiting
further attention (it will be going dry :-)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 9, 2007, at 6:56 AM, Matt Kenigson wrote:
Tune in tomorrow for the answers to these and many other tantalizing
questions!
Nah, as much as it hurts I'm gonna let the cat part way out of the bag
:-)
On 3/9/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
What was the law? What great step did it accomplish? Will it pass
the
senate and then the governor?
NEVs are currently regulated to a maximum speed of 25 mph. They are
allowed only on streets with speed limits of 35 mph or less. My
understanding is they are not even allowed to *cross* streets with a
speed limit in excess of 35 mph (which tends to make them DOA in King
County and Snohomish County because much of Hi-way 99, the old
north/south route, is posted above 35 mph.) I hope that in addition to
allowing NEVs to go the speed limit on roads they are allowed to cross
streets with higher speed limits (up to 50 mph should cover it.)
I'm not completely sure about the WA senate, but getting through with a
94-0 house vote is a very good sign. I'm confident our Queen (err, I
mean Governor) would sign it if it lands on her desk. Any in depth
discussion about the WA political climate could quickly degrade into a
very off topic flame war, so I will leave the rest of the world this;
we tend to be regarded as liberal, but we also tend to be anti-tax and
anti government interference (the majority tends to support less
government/laws/taxes.)
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just ordered some new Werker AGM batteries and was told the price went
up 15% two weeks ago. He apologized profusely and said led prices have
gone way up. BUMMER!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:15 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
Doug,
With respect, the crash you cite with E-Woody is pure anecdotal
evidence.
Even though it is "real-world data" it does not prove anything.
It is good that Jerry is designing his creations with crashes in mind.
But
without real "official" crash testing, making any claims of
crashworthiness
(especially based on a single incident) is irresponsible and probably
liable.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: March 1, 2007 9:08 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
On Mar 1, 2007, at 7:02 AM, Mark Brueggemann wrote:
> When the EWoody passes a crash test, I'll be a believer.
The eWoody *did* pass a crash test. Someone rear-ended him, and Jerry
was
unhurt and the eWoody was easily and quickly repairable, even though the
other car was badly damaged (totalled?).
No, this is not the same as a DOT certification, but it's real-world
data.
Jerry designed the eWoody to survive this type of crash, and it did.
When he can afford it, he may get an official crash test. On the other
hand, if he can afford it, it means that he has made millions of dollars
selling FreedomEVs that haven't been officially crash-tested.
We'll just have to see how many Americans will buy vehicles without
crash
certifications and air bags. Certainly, some of them will.
Jerry doesn't need or even want to sell to Joe Sixpack and Susie Soccer
Mom
at this time. He's only planning to build tens of cars per year at this
point.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There goes my bubble. But have you read the book? Maybe he has not
done it but I found him a good writer with MANY details, graphs and
tables. So far in all my cross checking he has been right on the money.
Some people have talent to build and other have talent to communicate.
I really do not care if he has done it as long as his research is
correct and the book is based on fact.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:04 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Reading Material
A little something you may find of interest. Although there are some
people
in this world who are very good at assembling information there are
other
people in this world who are actually good at producing real things.
Among
these real things are electric conversions. I hate to be the one to
burst
your bubble about the idolization of Bob Brandt but the real truth is
that
he has never done an electric conversion in his lifetime on the planet
Earth. I know that will come as a shock to many on this list including
some
old timers, but hey, reality is reality. For all you armchair
converters/engineers you know exactly what I am talking about. First, I
tell
people that if you are intelligent enough to wire a flashlight you can
build
your own electric car. There is a negative side and a positive side. The
bulb is the motor, the switch is a little more complicated and more like
a
light dimmer. You will want to have a fuse and a safety switch. It is
one
heck of a lot less complicated than auto mechanics.
Here is a very interesting comparison for you. If you are a doctor
you
work on two models of human beings. They have eleven systems some of
which
are the skeletal system, a nervous system, a circulatory system,
respiratory
system, digestive system, etc, just to name a few. Now take the average
automobile. They have the skeletal, (body/frame) fuel, heating, cooling,
(drivetrain), engine, transmission, dirrerential, all called the drive
train, suspension, fuel, computer, braking, etc. Now think about the
knowledge in bits of information that it takes to understand all of
these
makes and models which change yearly. Remember that they are still
making
the same two models of humans year after year. I have even figured out
how
they do that :-)
In the case of a doctor they have these two models, a male and a
female,
all systems the same except reproductive. Now you take the automobile,
similar systems yet totally different for each year make and model. So
many
years out there and so many different models. They change all the time.
>From
my experience in the field there is no way in hell you will do a
successful
transplant operation trying to put a Chevy clutch into a Saab. The very
simple point that I have been elaborately trying to point out here is
that
an auto mechanic has to know many, many more bits of information than a
doctor. Also, that electrics are so simple that a layman can work on
them.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: Reading Material
>I was very impressed with Bob Brant's Build your own electric vehicle.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of KARSTEN GOPINATH
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:58 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Reading Material
>
> Hello I am researching building my electric car and I was wondering
> whether anyone could recommend some reading material for me. I have
> Convert It, Electric Vehicle Technology Explained, and Building your
> own Electric Car. I am specifically interested in AC motors and
Lithium
> Ion tech. Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/714 - Release Date:
3/8/2007
> 10:58 AM
>
>
--- End Message ---
