EV Digest 6575
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) NiMH Battery Packs in Parallel
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: newbie question - starter motor base yard kart
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Yellow Tops... Yes or No?
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Free LEDs
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Live from PIR, Fireball Incident
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 5-mph bumper removal
by Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Better Data Logging Options?
by Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: newbie question - starter motor base yard kart
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) RE: Live from PIR, Fireball Incident
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Better Data Logging Options?
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Cool Chassis for EV
by KARSTEN GOPINATH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Better Data Logging Options?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Better Data Logging Options?
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: NiMH Battery Packs in Parallel
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Datsun motor adapter?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: NiMH Battery Packs in Parallel
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Clutch VS clutchless
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Better Data Logging Options?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Clutch VS clutchless
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Mike Willmons shaft question
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Better Data Logging Options?
by John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) charging while driving question
by John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Mike Willmons shaft question
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I keep coming across info about NiMH being a problem when you are trying
to charge them in parallel- Can someone explain what the problem is? or a
site that details it?
I'm thinking about making my own pack from 14AH NiMH cells, but they can't
deliver enough current in series, so I want to understand what has to be
done to safely use parallel packs.
Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm building a cart/kart right now. It's going to have more power than most
gas carts though. I will have some more pictures up soon that I can show you
if you are interested.
--
Martin K
On 3/20/07, Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
First, you won't have any braking at all, not just "don't expect great
braking".
and B. you will quickly find that the starter motor was a bad choice.
Maybe.... some starter motors are better than others...look for ball,
tapered, or roller bearings as opposed to bushings.
I'd start with one of those Ametek motors frequently seen on Ebay, or as
another said... scooter motors.. How about 4WD, those scoot motors are cheap
enough, and they are perm mag, which will make your dynamic braking wishes
much easier..
Go for it !!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Joe Batt
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:43 PM
> To: EVList
> Subject: newbie question - starter motor base yard kart
>
> "starter motor kart" is hard to search for in google. kart ~= cart,
> which is on lots of pages selling stuff. I've seen a couple videos,
> but not a lot of technical specs.
>
> I'm interested in making a yard kart with lots of acceleration for a
> dirt and grass course in my yard with very short straights.
>
> In my research I was surprised to find the cost of motors and
> controllers, so I'm trying the cheap route first (to learn from).
>
> I plan on:
>
> 1. just using the starter motor solenoid with a go/no go thumb
> button button
> 2. weld a chain sprocket to the start motor crank somehow so I use
> the motor for power and braking. I don't expect great braking. I'll
> also have to scrub speed by turning.
> 3. manually "PWM" with my thumb button attached to the solenoid for
> speed control.
> 4. use one or two lead acid auto or deep cycle batteries for power.
> (will need a second set charging while one set is running)
>
> I expect to learn that I should have found a real motor controller,
> than my batteries drain too fast, because the motor is to inefficient
> and that I should have put 4 wheel brakes on.
>
> Any comments? I'm using this as the excuse to buy the welder.
>
> I had a 5 hp B&S kart as a kid and it just seemed dangerous. We were
> always battling gasoline fires when the engine fell apart. I'm
> trying to convince my wife that a couple electric karts would be much
> safer for the kids.
>
> Thanks for your patience.
> Joe
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--
Martin Klingensmith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If you really only need under 200A draw, you don't need the power of the
> yellow-tops. This car sounds like a good candidate for a NiMH pack,
> less than half the price of Lithium, and less than half the weight of
> lead. With a car as light as this one, you can really see a dramatic
> difference of the lighter weight of the NiMH.
> And if you plan to buy a bunch of chargers, you can just as well buy a
> set of NiMH chargers to charge 12v substrings. You might be able to get
> away without the high-rate IB9000 D-cells for this car, and a real BMS
> if you don't mind the manul labor.
> Jack
I would be interested in knowing a source of *reliable* NIMH cells of
small EV size. I haven't kept up with sources.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I regularly sell 650 LED versions of these red 12" lights on eBay for
$21.95. I buy them from various government agencies, test and sort the
'good' ones (with all LEDs working) from the 'bad' ones (usually 10 LEDs not
working because they are in series strings of 10 and one single LED goes
bad, 649 still good), clean them up and resell them. I don't have any of the
'good' ones in stock right now, but I do have lots of the 'bad' ones. If
anyone on the list wants some of these to play with you can have them for $8
each, or 5 for $25, plus UPS Ground shipping.
Dan
-------------------------------------------
Matt,
Surplus Center has two red led traffic signal light fixtures that were
removed from service, $14.95. Here is the link:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007032010464655&item=11-3160-
D&catname=electric
Alan Brinkman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:47 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Free LEDs
In a message dated 3/16/2007 4:40:16 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The source: Traffic light signals and Walk/Dont Walk signs bummed from
the trash of the local city
traffic light maintenance dept where my son works.
Any chance you will find you have "enough" of these and can start selling
them to your fellow Listers?
Sounds like VERY nice light sources!
Thanks
Matt Parkhouse
(who is using LEDS for head, tail and brake lights on my EV
three-wheeler)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Jim Husted wrote:
>
> Dutchmans shaft is different. He splined the shaft
> the whole way down. When we pressed it in, the spline
> teeth actually pressed into the laminations acting
> like a broach creating lots of bite on that shaft.
Jim, what's the O.D. on the splines on that Dutchman shaft running through the
motor?
Is it the same all the way out to the drive end? (there's an ad for the
Dutchman, "Ribbed, For Your Armature's Pleasure")
I was wondering if WZ is running the slip yoke right off the motor shaft? Or
through a shorty tail housing?
I was also wondering if you could tell us motor challanged individuals what
size thrust bearing you used on the DE?
and is the middle bearing a thrust bearing too?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You've seen all of the hot rods with no bumpers? Art cars with toys
or mirrors glued everywhere? I think that once you bought a car you
could do pretty much anything you wanted with it. The only reason
they care about your car being electric is that you took out the one
part that they actually do care about. I could be wrong, but that's
the impression I've always had.
As long as you didn't make your car into a mad max type car with
spikes. That could probably be argued to have contributed to
whatever happened in an accident.
On Mar 20, 2007, at 7:12 AM, mike golub wrote:
That's why the replacement bumpers should preform
better than the old ones.
--- Alan Gideon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Unfortunately, we live in a litigious society and
trials are all about the
ability to sway others by argument - not about
justice. If I were a lawyer,
I would argue that replacing your bumpers shows
disregard for the safety of
others, which is why my client will suffer for years
on end from the
whiplash you induced. That might be a total crock,
but I'd still make the
argument if I thought it could give me the win.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:30 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 5-mph bumper removal
Your safe, any additional damage anyone could argue
would be speculative to
the point of immaterial. Least to mention that no
one would notice anyway.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:22 AM
Subject: 5-mph bumper removal
I was wondering if anyone has any experience or
insight into the
consequences of removing the 5 mph bumpers on my
Fiat 124 and
replacing them with the pre 1975 bumpers. I
guesstimate they weigh at
least 75 lbs, so I can probably save >50 lbs by
replacing them with
the lighter earlier bumpers. It's not all that
much but handling wise
the weight is in the worst possible place and
they're ugly.
What I'm most concerned with is insurance, I
don't intend to insure
the car for damages to it but I'm wondering if
the insurance company
will still try to use the fact that I didn't
have the original bumpers
as a way to get out of paying damages to the
other vehicle in the
event of a fender bender.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
______________________________________________________________________
______________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or Max/MSP. I've got an old ibook without a screen and a separate
lcd screen waiting for that purpose.
On Mar 20, 2007, at 9:39 AM, john fisher wrote:
Sounds like a call for an open source battery management project
doesn't it?
Maybe this has been discussed to death before? There's a G3 Ibook
on CGl today for $70. I could run a modern PPC Linux on it for a
runtime and display of a LabView app. I guess the hardware to
collect data and control things is the hard part. at least for me.
Edward Kellogg wrote:
Yes, there is educational pricing
http://www.amazon.com/LabVIEW-8-Student-book-only/dp/0132390256/
ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/105-1363604-7773233?
ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174368420&sr=8-4 Ed Kellogg
LabView does have a free student edition:
http://www.ni.com/academic/edu_lic.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
tried a starter moter once- it burned up. starters are not designed for
running for more than a few minutes at a time, you would be alot better off to
just buy a motor off ebay - you will also find that a speed controller will
save
you alot of whiplash and broken chains, (although I did see a belt drive
once that could be loosened or made tight with a lever, (worked kind of like a
half-ass clutch) anyway, good luck, we all have to start somewhere.
************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (you kind of remind me of the 300 spartan guys
> fighting the Persians (Wayland)) Anyhow, no offense
> to John, just trying to add humor at Jim's expense!
Hey Rod
Been meaning to reply to this! You know they lost
right?? Sure it was a good fight but in the end they
cut off the Spartan Kings head and stuck it on a pig
pole. But then again you probably did know this and
the one and only guy I thought was on "my" side turns
out to be just another blood thirsty Roman who enjoys
a good fight with lots of leaking plasma!
--- Tim Humphrey wrote:
> I hereby rescind the following post from 21 Sep >
2006.....
> I didn't think John would take me seriously. ;-)
> mmmm..... sounds like one of those match made in >
heaven things....
> or is it water-electricity, ac-dc, fire-gas, >
matter-antimatter. Anyway the Jim-John connection >
benefits us ALL. JOHN!!! You're not trying hard >
enough!!!! BREAK the damn thing.
> Jim has all but challenged you here!!!
> JIM!!! NICE WORK!!! Try to stay ahead of John's >
carnage!!
> My turn for a LMAO!! BWAAHAHAHA
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
This really shows me how completely clueless I was
when Wayland led me here. Kind of a bitch to think
you were the lion and find out you've been the lamb
the whole time! Anyway glad I keep you all
entertained!
I'm not one to go looking for a fight but I'm not one
to back down neither. With that said I'll fight the
good fight best I can! I just need to find me a
narrow canyon so I can keep you all single file 8^P
Not sure bout you all (well actually I'm getting a
clearer picture) but God I hope my head don't land on
some pole 8^o Screw that remember the Alamo crap!
Yeah, and I'm the list sicko!
Had fun, in a sick kind of way, I think.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
d'oh no I couldn't run linux on a PPC machine for LabView.
oops! Scratch that.
But I just saw a bunch of $40 Intel laptops at the surplus sale. It'll work on
them.
On Mar 20, 2007, at 9:39 AM, john fisher wrote:
Sounds like a call for an open source battery management project
doesn't it?
Maybe this has been discussed to death before? There's a G3 Ibook on
CGl today for $70. I could run a modern PPC Linux on it for a runtime
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pretty cool chassis for EV. http://www.gizmag.com/go/7009/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
john fisher wrote:
> d'oh no I couldn't run linux on a PPC machine for LabView.
> oops! Scratch that.
> But I just saw a bunch of $40 Intel laptops at the surplus
> sale. It'll work on them.
What are you planning to interface LabView with? (It is only the
software that talks to the hardware that actually does the work.)
Did someone mention there being a student version of LabView out there?
I didn't see any mention of it on NI's site; the lowest cost option they
had was $1200 for the basic version.
If you're doing data acquisition, the cheapest option for pack-level
monitoring is an RS232 E-Meter and the cheapest laptop you can find with
a serial port (or even a suitable Palm device) to log the data. With a
laptop, you don't have to write a single line of code, unless you want
to; under Windows, use [Hyper]Terminal to log the serial stream; under
DOS use any readily available freeware/shareware terminal program; I
haven't done Linux but have no doubt there are any number of suitable
terminal programs available for it also. Once you have the data you can
get as fancy as you want analysing and graphing it with Excel or any
other (especially free ;^) spreadsheet package of your choice.
There are a number of USB data acquisition devices out there that could
be pressed into service for module-level monitoring. The caveat here is
that the isolation between channels is seldom mentioned and is almost
certainly not going to be sufficient, so it may be necessary to use
voltage dividers to allow each module's voltage to be measured relative
to a common ground connection at the pack -ve.
I'm not positive, but I believe that LabView is really a slick solution
*if* you've got GPIB/USB/serial interface data acquisition and/or
control hardware for which there are drivers available... but you may be
SOL if you're planning to use it with I/O hardware you will build
yourself.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
see below...
Roger Stockton wrote:
j
What are you planning to interface LabView with? (It is only the
software that talks to the hardware that actually does the work.)
Hey thats hardware! no fair. I assumed the usual analog and digital sensors for speed and temperature, plus something
for voltage and amperage ( maybe the Emeter?). Isn't that all off-the-shelf stuff?
Did someone mention there being a student version of LabView out there?
I didn't see any mention...
see previous posts for URL
If you're doing data acquisition, the cheapest option for pack-level
monitoring is an RS232 E-Meter and the cheapest laptop you can find with
a serial port (or even a suitable Palm device) to log the data. With a
laptop, you don't have to write a single line of code, ....
no fun unless you get to write some code...
actually I was thinking of realtime display plus more elegant analysis. Life is
too short to use Hyperterminal.
There are a number of USB data acquisition devices out there that could
be pressed into service for module-level monitoring. The caveat here is
that the isolation between channels is seldom mentioned and is almost
certainly not going to be sufficient,
OK here you lost me. Please do the Sensors for Dummmies version.
so it may be necessary to use
voltage dividers to allow each module's voltage to be measured relative
to a common ground connection at the pack -ve.
I'm not positive, but I believe that LabView is really a slick solution
*if* you've got GPIB/USB/serial interface data acquisition and/or
control hardware for which there are drivers available...
I thought from my last foray into data acquisition that USB and serial hardware was common as dirt. I found it
everywhere. What I saw IIRC was tons of sensors and capture devices with LabView as the universal first choice in
drivers, "works with LabView" was a common theme. I wasn't looking for EV related stuff though.
but you may be
SOL if you're planning to use it with I/O hardware you will build
yourself.
Actually a list of what we'd need to measure would be really helpful. I mean I assume amperage and voltage at various
places, plus safety stuff like motor temp and performance stuff like ground speed and rpms. What else?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The way the voltage reacts to current, charging, and temp causes serious
problems.
Put two charged cells in parallel. One can be slightly warmer and thus
have a higher voltage. It will discharge into the other cell and run
itself down while overcharging the other cell, which will damage it.
Now in charging a NiMH cell with a constant current, at first voltage
climbs, but right as it approaches full charge the cell voltage actually
drops briefly. Now with 2 in parallel, as the voltage drops, not only
will the cell take all the charging current rather than half, but the
other cell will discharge into it. It is impossible to balance the
charge.
You could have 2x 24v series strings (20 cells each), each charged
independently and when put in parallel for discharging there would be a
series diode in each string ensuring it can only discharge, not shunt
current from one string to the other.
However, large series strings of NiMH can have difficult balance issues
as well. Self-discharge in NiMH is high and somewhat variable from
cell-to-cell and with temperature. NiMH loses most of its charge over
like a month of just sitting on the shelf. Say we have a 10AH string
but one self-discharges 1.5AH worse than another one. Well, why can't I
just add another 1.5AH in during the charge? Two reasons. One, NiMH
does NOT like overcharge. It will damage the cells, permanently
decreasing their capacity. The cells which began in the best charge
state are the ones which see the most overcharge. Second, the charge
termination scheme used by most chargers watches for the voltage drop as
the cells near full charge, but that's a transient effect. If there are
only 8 cells in a string and each one does its voltage drop at different
times, it's still detectable. With 20x in a string, the voltage drop of
a single cell reaching full charge is much smaller relative to the whole
voltage and it doesn't just scale up because each cell could do it at
different times, then continue to rise back up and the individual events
could be lost unless 2 or 3 cells do it at exactly the same time. Not
that large series strings are impossible, Prius battery packs use them,
but it require a high-tech battery management system.
Paralleling 2 cells though, that's impossible. May work briefly on the
testbench but will not work reliably in the field.
Danny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I keep coming across info about NiMH being a problem when you are trying
to charge them in parallel- Can someone explain what the problem is? or a
site that details it?
I'm thinking about making my own pack from 14AH NiMH cells, but they can't
deliver enough current in series, so I want to understand what has to be
done to safely use parallel packs.
Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm trying to get a handle on what I require to stick a motor into my
'66 Datsun 411. Obviously, I can't just go to the EV parts suppliers
and ask for that - I need to figure out what its *like*.
I've been searching the web for information about Datsun engine and
transmission swaps. There is lots of info out there but most of it
centers on the engine mounts or transmission mounts. If anyone is aware
of a site that centers more on the engine mounting and/or bellhousing
patterns please share it with me. An interchange list of that should
allow me to ask for something "normal." Adapters are available off the
shelf for a number of Datsun/Nissan vehicles.
I suspect this will be pretty easy, once I figure out what to ask for.
Lots of people (including Plasma Boy) have stuffed Z-car, or other
Datsun 5 speeds into older Datsuns. The J13 engine in my 411 was also
used in a number of early Datsun Pickups and some of those have been
converted. The J13 engine is also similar to the A12 engine used in the
Datsun 1200 series (and John still runs the 4-speed in the Blue
Meanie.)
Any help would be appreciated, even if you don't have *all* the
answers. If a number of people can give me some answers I can hopefully
put them together.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had 5 nimh Prius packs in parallel in my truck. Every couple weeks
each pack needed to be charged by itself. The very first time I did
this there was a noticeable difference in their states of charge. But
after that initial setup the difference was tiny between packs. I ran
them for something like 1000 miles. I'd have to find my notebook for an
exact number. I stopped using them due to the large size of the box
they came in and the amount of hardware to make them reliable would
just not have fit into the huge battery box that my truck was built
with. They were sold to a university after I had tested each pack
individually. 3 were damaged and were sold to a friend cheaply.
Mike
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I keep coming across info about NiMH being a problem when you are
> trying
> to charge them in parallel- Can someone explain what the problem is?
> or a
> site that details it?
>
> I'm thinking about making my own pack from 14AH NiMH cells, but they
> can't
> deliver enough current in series, so I want to understand what has to
> be
> done to safely use parallel packs.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 18, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Jack Murray wrote:
I setup my Fiero without a clutch. I removed the spline coupler from
the clutch disc and opened up a straight coupler a bit on the lathe so
it fit into the coupler and welded it. I took some pictures..
http://www.nimblemotorsports.com/fierocoupler.jpg
http://www.nimblemotorsports.com/fieroadapter.jpg
Nice example of a Ruland shaft coupler. I don't think you are supposed
to weld to them! The screws provide the clamping force (and generally a
keyway is provided too.) I use one in my EV buggy, with a VW Bus
input/mainshaft coupler machined to fit in the other end.
However Bill Dube said you need the shock absorbing action of the
clutch disc, so I'm wondering if I should redo the coupler to use a
spider coupler instead that has a little rubber cushioning.
My Buggy has been running since 1999 with a Ruland shaft coupler and
solid transaxles mounts. If you toss a driveshaft into the mix it may
have a different opinion of the shock loads. My Buggy transaxle seems
fine. Not all cars have spring loaded clutch disks! (I know old Beetles
didn't)
On the other hand, I think you should redo your coupler.
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
john fisher wrote:
> I assumed the usual analog and
> digital sensors for speed and temperature, plus something
> for voltage and amperage ( maybe the Emeter?). Isn't that all
> off-the-shelf stuff?
Perhaps; the question is whether or not there are LabView drivers
available off-the-shelf that will allow it to talk to them.
> > Did someone mention there being a student version of
> > LabView out there?
> > I didn't see any mention...
> see previous posts for URL
Well now, if I had the pervious posts, I probably wouldn't be asking
now, would I? ;^>
> > If you're doing data acquisition, the cheapest option
> > for pack-level monitoring is an RS232 E-Meter and the
> > cheapest laptop you can find with a serial port (or
> > even a suitable Palm device) to log the data. With a
> > laptop, you don't have to write a single line of code, ....
>
> no fun unless you get to write some code...
> actually I was thinking of realtime display plus more elegant
> analysis. Life is too short to use Hyperterminal.
I guess it comes down to what exactly "better" means to people. I'm
pretty sure that a solution that requires dropping $1200 (or whatever
the student price is for those who qualify) on software alone isn't
really what most people think of as "better" than using a free terminal
program to log serial data from an E-Meter ;^>
As for the realtime display and more elegant analysis, to each his own.
I don't personally have much use for a realtime display in my own EV; I
find it distracting enough trying to keep an eye on my E-Meter while
driving. I've got a laptop onboard logging the serial stream from the
E-Meter and controlling a bit of custom hardware to connect an RS232 DMM
to each battery in turn and log that data as well, but I prefer to do my
data analysis off-line.
> > There are a number of USB data acquisition devices [...]
>
> OK here you lost me. Please do the Sensors for Dummmies version.
Basically, if you want to monitor individual batteries or cells it seem
obvious to pick up some number of multi-channel USB A/D devices and
connect each channel to a different cell/module. Problem is that these
devices appear designed on the assumption that their channels will not
be connected to things what are very far apart in voltage, and you could
rather easily fry the device by connecting one channel to a potential
that is, for instance, 100V away from another channel. The other gotcha
is to ensure that any USB device you hope to use is provides isolation
between the USB bus and the signals being measured (as well as from one
channel to another).
One way around this is to connect the devices so they all share a common
ground reference ocnnection. But, this requires that you divide to
voltage to each input channel by an appropriate amount to keep it within
the device rating. The dividers introduce an additional source of
error, and you need pretty accurate dividers (or software calibration),
and a device with a fair number of bits of resolution otherwise you
really can't get useful measurements when dividing the voltage at the
300V node of a pack down to the 0-5V (for instance) input range of the
USB device.
> I thought from my last foray into data acquisition that USB
> and serial hardware was common as dirt. I found it
> everywhere. What I saw IIRC was tons of sensors and capture
> devices with LabView as the universal first choice in
> drivers, "works with LabView" was a common theme. I wasn't
> looking for EV related stuff though.
Great! As I say, as long as there are drivers available for the devices
you want to use, then LabView may be a slick approach.
> Actually a list of what we'd need to measure would be really
> helpful. I mean I assume amperage and voltage at various
> places, plus safety stuff like motor temp and performance
> stuff like ground speed and rpms. What else?
I log battery current, voltage, temperature, and individual module
voltages.
As far as the traction system goes, the only other current and voltage
of interest are the motor side values. Motor temp and RPM might be of
interest, and I suppose a wheel RPM would allow ground speed
calculation.
If you really wanted to knock yourself out, individual module
temperatures would be nice, and you could log the 12V bus voltage and
current in/out of the house battery as well as current out of the DC/DC.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These couplers have the screws to make it easy to remove them, but
clearly there is nothing to remove on the side that goes into the
transmssion shaft so welding it solid is not an issue. The side that
goes to the motor was a little tighter with the other side solid, but
was not a problem. I would have used a solid coupler if I had found
one, couldn't find one on mcmaster-carr.com, but I saw one later at
surpluscenter.com. Where is a good source for them?
I really don't know how important the shock issue is, I don't recall
hearing this issue before bills comment. Isn't an automatic with a
lockup converter running with a solid input from motor-trans?
Jack
Paul G. wrote:
On Mar 18, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Jack Murray wrote:
I setup my Fiero without a clutch. I removed the spline coupler from
the clutch disc and opened up a straight coupler a bit on the lathe so
it fit into the coupler and welded it. I took some pictures..
http://www.nimblemotorsports.com/fierocoupler.jpg
http://www.nimblemotorsports.com/fieroadapter.jpg
Nice example of a Ruland shaft coupler. I don't think you are supposed
to weld to them! The screws provide the clamping force (and generally a
keyway is provided too.) I use one in my EV buggy, with a VW Bus
input/mainshaft coupler machined to fit in the other end.
However Bill Dube said you need the shock absorbing action of the
clutch disc, so I'm wondering if I should redo the coupler to use a
spider coupler instead that has a little rubber cushioning.
My Buggy has been running since 1999 with a Ruland shaft coupler and
solid transaxles mounts. If you toss a driveshaft into the mix it may
have a different opinion of the shock loads. My Buggy transaxle seems
fine. Not all cars have spring loaded clutch disks! (I know old Beetles
didn't)
On the other hand, I think you should redo your coupler.
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Jim Husted wrote:
> > Dutchmans shaft is different. He splined the
> > shaft the whole way down.
> Jim, what's the O.D. on the splines on that
> Dutchman shaft running through the motor?
> Is it the same all the way out to the drive end?
> (there's an ad for the Dutchman, "Ribbed, For Your
> Armature's Pleasure")
Dear Mike
Die Persian!
Sorry still on that last post 8^P
After "your" last posting I was all set to tame my
stuff down and then you send this? It's like red yarn
to a Salmon man, I can't not hit it. See how good I
am David?
Anyway
The shaft diameter is the same as the OEM one, kinda.
> I was wondering if WZ is running the slip yoke right
> off the motor shaft? Or through a shorty tail
> housing?
Oh what "now" you need something huh? Well let me
jump right on that for you! I'm so glad it's ribbed
8^o
First off the Zombies not running, LMAO!
As to the second half I don't know. John and Tim told
me they were done with me after I handed over the
motor (I just pretend to hang out with them), They
said they'd call when they needed me again. Looks
like I took that call Sunday, Yeah 8^D!
> I was also wondering if you could tell us motor
> challanged individuals what size thrust bearing you
> used on the DE?
Us? or you?? and well, yes I could.
> and is the middle bearing a thrust bearing too?
Well, well aren't you a little wad of questions today?
I'll say this...
I find it funny that you seek but do not see.
Some PlasmaBoy fan you are, have you EVen been there?
They say a picture's worth a thousand words, so this
is all you get!
http://photos.plasmaboyracing.com/buildsequence/Shaft_Spicer?full=1
I hope you have to cut and paste that link to, hahaha.
To bad you can't zoom in enough to read the numbers
huh! 8^o LMAO!
He's even got my drawing of the shaft on the history
page also, under 2005 early version, here.
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/reviews.php
All the info is right there.
What? You can't zoom that one either? Bummer 8^P
Looks like it's 32 1/2" long! The rest is kinda tough
to read though isn't it 8^)
Yeah! Big city Mountain Boy's getting ready to race!
Did you want my cell number now, or want to wait??
I mean I really really look forward to hearing your
race reports! :^D
Anyway I Hope this helps, LMAO!
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks for the review.
Roger Stockton wrote:
Well now, if I had the pervious posts, I probably wouldn't be asking
now, would I? ;^>
Given my predilection for ignoring RTFM advice and that everybody else
is even worse...
;>)
LabView does have a free student edition:
http://www.ni.com/academic/edu_lic.htm
I guess it comes down to what exactly "better" means to people. I'm
pretty sure that a solution that requires dropping $1200....
I was thinking free student edition and <$100 laptop ;>)
OK here you lost me. Please do the Sensors for Dummmies version.
Basically, if you want to monitor individual batteries or cells it seem
obvious to pick up some number of multi-channel USB A/D devices and
connect each channel to a different cell/module. Problem is that these
devices appear designed on the assumption that their channels will not
be connected to things what are very far apart in voltage, and you could
rather easily fry the device by connecting one channel to a potential
that is, for instance, 100V away from another channel. The other gotcha
is to ensure that any USB device you hope to use is provides isolation
between the USB bus and the signals being measured (as well as from one
channel to another).
One way around this is to connect the devices so they all share a common
ground reference ocnnection. But, this requires that you divide to
voltage to each input channel by an appropriate amount to keep it within
the device rating. The dividers introduce an additional source of
error, and you need pretty accurate dividers (or software calibration),
and a device with a fair number of bits of resolution otherwise you
really can't get useful measurements when dividing the voltage at the
300V node of a pack down to the 0-5V (for instance) input range of the
USB device.
Yeah, thanks. This is obviously beyond my expertise, present or future,
so I'd best stay with off-the-shelf solutions.
Actually a list of what we'd need to measure would be really
helpful. I mean I assume amperage and voltage at various
places, plus safety stuff like motor temp and performance
stuff like ground speed and rpms. What else?
I log battery current, voltage, temperature, and individual module
voltages.
As far as the traction system goes, the only other current and voltage
of interest are the motor side values. Motor temp and RPM might be of
interest, and I suppose a wheel RPM would allow ground speed
calculation.
If you really wanted to knock yourself out, individual module
temperatures would be nice, and you could log the 12V bus voltage and
current in/out of the house battery as well as current out of the DC/DC.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I gather that pluggable hybrids are not really the thread of this list,
yet the expertise is here, and I can't find another resource, so please
bear with me...
I am on a low budget, and will have to build my green car in phases. It
seems unlikely that I can afford a battery pack with a satisfactory
range in Li at one swallow, and anyway I need the room to experiment
with differing solutions. I may still use lead, but it's too heavy for
my primary spec. So the first EV phase may require an on-board genset to
add some range.
So what won't work with this:
Li pack of say 120V
commercial charger for 115-125 VAC - Zivan?
DC motor or maybe D&D shunt wound DC to get regen
commercial controller - Curtis?
commercial 120V genset of say 5500 W 120 V continuous duty
Can you plug the charger into the output of the genset and charge while
you are driving off the battery pack?
Ok now that you laughed until you wet your pants, please explain why not
and what might work instead...
TIA
JF
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Jim Husted wrote:
> Dear Mike
> Die Persian!
> Sorry still on that last post 8^P
> After "your" last posting I was all set to tame my
> stuff down and then you send this? It's like red yarn
> to a Salmon man, I can't not hit it. See how good I
> am David?
> Anyway
> The shaft diameter is the same as the OEM one, kinda.
I suppose you could be right. Except for the splines you say bite into the
armature, eh?
>
> Oh what "now" you need something huh? Well let me
> jump right on that for you! I'm so glad it's ribbed
> 8^o
> First off the Zombies not running, LMAO!
doh, but thats a minor point.
>
> As to the second half I don't know. John and Tim told
> me they were done with me after I handed over the
> motor (I just pretend to hang out with them), They
> said they'd call when they needed me again. Looks
> like I took that call Sunday, Yeah 8^D!
Hey at least they call you. I just have to settle for reading the ocaisional
post and third party reports from PIR. I'm going to
change that though, I'll race you to Portland!! for the Wayland invitational.
> > I was also wondering if you could tell us motor
> > challanged individuals what size thrust bearing you
> > used on the DE?
>
> Us? or you?? and well, yes I could.
Well duh, its me who asked. I figured I'd take one for the team of those who
are to afraid to ask, fearing you might take a comm
stone to sharpen your Spartan spear tip and then cut off their neck and spit
down their throat.
> > and is the middle bearing a thrust bearing too?
>
> Well, well aren't you a little wad of questions today?
>
> I'll say this...
> I find it funny that you seek but do not see.
> Some PlasmaBoy fan you are, have you EVen been there?
Yes I have, but I've slept since then. And who's Plasmaboy? I thought you
said that was a Witch in a cheap costume.
>
> They say a picture's worth a thousand words, so this
> is all you get!
> http://photos.plasmaboyracing.com/buildsequence/Shaft_Spicer?full=1
So it is, I remember seeing this last year. Care to spell out the 1000 words
on your FAQ page? I can't read pictures to well.
No, I get your message 599. I asked because those don't look like thrust
bearings. But who am I to know. Maybe the 800 ft lbs
of torque on the rear-end isn't enough to jam the slip yoke all the way up to
the face of the motor, or so I would hope :-O
>
> I hope you have to cut and paste that link to, hahaha.
> To bad you can't zoom in enough to read the numbers
> huh! 8^o LMAO!
Why cut and paste? I chicken pecked it in, like you did.
>
> He's even got my drawing of the shaft on the history
> page also, under 2005 early version, here.
> http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/reviews.php
> All the info is right there.
> What? You can't zoom that one either? Bummer 8^P
> Looks like it's 32 1/2" long! The rest is kinda tough
> to read though isn't it 8^)
You sure talk a mean talk about the Witch in a Plasmaboy suit but you seem to
have that WZ history page memorized. Oh I forgot
its half about you anyway ;-p I don't need to kype the drawing though. I'll
just send MY motors to some guys motor shop down in
Redmond :-) Know any good shops down there??
>
> Yeah! Big city Mountain Boy's getting ready to race!
Hey no pokin' fun, we actually have a paved drag strip. It doubles as the
runway during the day.
> Did you want my cell number now, or want to wait??
> I mean I really really look forward to hearing your
> race reports! :^D
Why don't you just open up a seasonal shop up in Palmer so I can leave the
motors with you every day when I leave the track :-O I
can't believe you'd build such a nice motor for Zombie and not even be there to
see your baby(ies) compete. What kind of mother
are you anyway ;-)
> Anyway I Hope this helps, LMAO!
>
Yeah, like a rusty fish hook.
damn that red yarn works good !!
--- End Message ---
