EV Digest 6581
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Live from PIR, Fireball Incident
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) new DC series motor run-in?
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EV Parts for sale on e-bay UK
by "Peter Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) City El
by Kenneth Dove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) e-bikes in india ..
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: ARGGG, destroying expensive lifepo4 cells. :( Need a "button" fuse.
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: e-bikes in india ..
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: e-bikes in india ..
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Old NEDRA Videos Wanted
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: e-bikes in india ..
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: e-bikes in india ..
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: A few newbie questions.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: new DC series motor run-in?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) 2007 Power of DC EV Racing Challenge
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: S10 EV vs Audi SUV owie
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EV adaptor plates
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Weatherization and Cooling of Motors
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: A few newbie questions.
by "Ted Sanders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Aquapro (Re: A few newbie questions.)
by "The Grinster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: charging while driving question
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: new DC series motor run-in?
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/21/07 6:26:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Live from PIR, Fireball Incident
Date: 3/21/07 6:26:00 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Brune)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Hi John,
Sounds like a pretty good day at the track. I wish I could have been there.
Did you get a chance to take any data on the runs?
>From Tim's description it sounds to me like the Zilla shouldn't have been
in battery voltage limit or battery current limit. Thus if we assume that Tim
still had is foot into it we must have been tapping on the motor voltage limit.
I know you were close to motor voltage limit last year. Sounds like the
extra battery power (Yes!) has pushed it over the limit, and perhaps a bit
further.
I know we talked a bit on the phone about this, but I wonder if you changed
the rear end gear ratio to reduce motor RPM a bit if you wouldn't be better
off. Perhaps sacrifice the 1/8th mile acceleration for an increase in top end
speed. What do you think?
***I tend to agree with Chris here.John you mention tire spin on the
starting line if you change the ratio to reduce rpm at the far end you should
get
more mph and with less tire spin off the line your 60fts could improve even
more
making you quicker and faster. Dennis Berube
Regards,
Chris Brune >>
</HTML>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are there any recommendations for running-in a new ADC 9" motor? I seem to
remember someone mentioning spinning over at lower voltage to wear-in the
brushes? Would appreciate any advice.
TIA
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ladies/Gents
In case you are interested I have just put up a load of ev parts on e-bay.
320095773503
Regards
Peter
UK
--
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07:52
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems to me that the City El would be the perfect vehicle for me to
complete my many errands around town. They seem to be priced fairly and
there are always several for sale on eBay Europe.
My question is, "Has anyone registered one of these in the US"? It seems
to me that it would not be difficult to register as a motorcycle.
Finally, how difficult would it be to import one into the States?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> But India, perhaps, offers the most e-bike promise. Scooter-like
> e-bikes appeal to penny-pinching hipsters, and an e-bike craze is
> running fast among India's call center crowd.
what is not very well known is that yobike uses Li-Ion battery and
yet is cheaper .. it has a locally manufactured hub motor
> The arrival of Ultra Motors, a British electric vehicle upstart
....
> Ultra is incorporating its more efficient motor, designed by a Russian
> scientist, into Hero's bikes; it plans the same for scooters and
> rickshaws,
what's that ? what is more efficient in the motor designd by that
russian scientist ?
___________________________________________________________
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" The
Wall Street Journal
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--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps these will work,
http://www.littlefuse.com/data/en/Data_Sheets/CF8_58V.pdf
They have others listed here that might be helpful
http://www.littlefuse.com/cgi-bin/r.cgi/en/know_datasheet_family.html?TechnologyID=3&LFSESSION=LDIkwjoLuT
Rod
--- Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone know if there exists a "button" fuse,
> where each contact of the fuse is opposite of each
> other? Sort of like a coin lithium cell? The reason
> why I'm searching for them is to protect cells in
> parallel from a failed cell.
>
> So, I'm trying to see if lithium iron phosphate
> 18650 cells can be used in parallel/series in a 4S5P
> pack.
>
> I bought 21 cells from www.batteryspace.com, and
> fiddled with them. I accidentally shorted two of
> them! They got hot and dumped full power for about
> 10 seconds or so. Drats, one was ruined (fails in a
> shorted state), the other, seemed ruined (very very
> low voltage, like .3 volts) but after a day, it
> charged up fine. Cool, I thought. So at least I
> still have 20 "good" cells. I mark the ruined but
> revived cell.
>
> I wired up a 4S5P pack using lifepo4 cells from
> www.batteryspace.com. I put it through a
> charge/discharge cycle on my charger, it works fine!
> Then I charge it again, and notice it comes up as 9V
> only. ACK! So it turns out that the "ruined but
> revived cell" failed short again, and it took out
> the other 4 cells in parallel with it! Now I'm left
> with 15 cells, and 6 ruined cells, at almost $7
> apiece, this experiment is getting expensive. :(
>
> I'm thinking it might be wise to wire up a fuse with
> each cell, but the logistics of wiring that up seems
> daunting. Is there any fuse that is like a button
> cell, that I can just put on the "+" end of each
> 18650? I've googled and all I've found were SMT
> fuses, which are too small. I've thought of maybe
> using glass fuses, but the glass would probably
> crack inside the pack.
>
>
> - Tony
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pete almost hit on what first struck me when I read about this......
This is a Washington state initiative. If it passes, how do they get around the
Federal definition of NEV?
Still it doesn't matter to me..... I live on a 55 mph street. No NEV will ever
work for me.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:22 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
>
>
>> This reads as if it is reasonable to drive 35 on a road with posted
>> 45mph limits. Is it?!?!
>
> Reasonable? That depends on what /you/ consider reasonable I guess.
> Legal? Sure in most states it's legal to drive 10 mph /under/ the speed
> limit.
>
>
> FWIW it IS a silly little law that currently limits NEVs. By federal law
> they are NOT allowed to be capable of going faster than 25mph and because
> of that are limited (again by federal law) to streets with a posted speed
> limit of 35 mph or lower.
>
> Note: federal law also requires that they be capable of doing MORE than 20
> mph. So legally a NEV could have a top speed of 20.5 mph and still
> legally drive on roads with posted spe4ed limits of 35 mph.
> Note 2: Vehicles with a top speed below 20 mph are not considered "motor
> vehicles" by federal law. Whether or not they can drive on the road is up
> to state/local regulations.
> One exception (sort of) is electric bicycles which can go "up to" 20 mph
> and fall under federal laws that preempt state/local laws. Under federal
> law they are considered bicycles and /not/ motorcycles or mopeds or
> whatever, so they basically fall under the same laws/regulations as
> ordinary bicycles (except for the federal limitations on speed, and size
> of motor, etc.)
>
>>
>> I'm all for these maximizing the utility of NEVs. If this is a silly law
>> that artificially limits NEVs speeds beyond one which they can easily
>> attain, then I support changing the law. If NEVs can't operate at the
>> posted speed limits, IMHO, the right action is to fix the EV, not the
>> law, not the speed limit... and DEFINITELY not the reality of the
>> majority of drivers.
>>
>> EV's best future lies with exceeding the expectation of the masses, not
>> compromising the requirements of the majority to fit the needs of the EV
>> minority.
>>
>> Randii
>>
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The topic caught my attention as there were two recent nice news about e-bikes
First, EVUK posted a welcome news about sub £500 lithium-powered full
size e-bikes making their way to stores in UK, imported from Japan and
China
http://www.evuk.co.uk/news/index5.html
Another nice thing to see, Jonathan Weinert, US student in China,
posts a video on his blog about high popularity of ebikes over there:
http://www.jonathanweinert.com/shanghai-blogs/
-kert
On 3/22/07, peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> But India, perhaps, offers the most e-bike promise. Scooter-like
> e-bikes appeal to penny-pinching hipsters, and an e-bike craze is
> running fast among India's call center crowd.
what is not very well known is that yobike uses Li-Ion battery and
yet is cheaper .. it has a locally manufactured hub motor
> The arrival of Ultra Motors, a British electric vehicle upstart
....
> Ultra is incorporating its more efficient motor, designed by a Russian
> scientist, into Hero's bikes; it plans the same for scooters and
> rickshaws,
what's that ? what is more efficient in the motor designd by that
russian scientist ?
___________________________________________________________
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The
Wall Street Journal
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3/22/07, peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The arrival of Ultra Motors, a British electric vehicle upstart
....
> Ultra is incorporating its more efficient motor, designed by a Russian
> scientist, into Hero's bikes; it plans the same for scooters and
> rickshaws,
what's that ? what is more efficient in the motor designd by that
russian scientist ?
No idea, but you could try asking them:
http://www.ultramotors.co.uk/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roy;
A noble endevoir, for sure! Can ya use 8mm vid tapes?Sorta raw footage?
Or if I were to be able to transfer to a DVD the racing stuff, ONLY. You may
not wanna wade through BNSF coal trains , Kitten pix, grandkids, stuff like
that. SOME of my stuff would be of interest, but the tapes are like a large
cardbored box fill of snapshots tossed in . Oh I'll sort 'em later for the
foto albums and NEVER do.
Yes! All this sh.....OOPS Stuff ! SHOULD be trapped and edited. If for
nothing eelse the NEDRA files and the History channel, when they run out of
WW2 footage. I think You Tube is the best thing to hit the Net in a long
time! We really get out on that! Where ELSE would ya get shots of Taiwan's
new bullit train and China's RR efforts? You can gret lost for hours in RR
stuff, Just that.
I'm clueless as to HOW you post, but a lota people arent!Mostly stupid
shit, but there are gems on there!The Killacycle. Zombie and others the E Go
Kart I stumbled into.Beat the hell out of Drag Times<g>!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:35 PM
Subject: Old NEDRA Videos Wanted
> Hi Folks
>
> I am spearheading an effort to post old NEDRA videos on youtube and google
> video before they are lost to the sands of time and no one gets to see
them.
> 2007 is NEDRA's 10th Anniversary and the older the footage the better.
>
> If there is any way that folks could provide me with some takes from that
> period it would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Like plenty of footage of the people involved and also showing details of
> vehicles. Shots of things like between rounds thrashing to prepare for the
> next run would be great.
>
> Pre and post racing get togethers like at the Wayland Juice Bar or
anywhere
> that EVs are being worked on would be good.
>
> Yes, videos of runs would be great too :^D
>
> I would, of course, be happy to credit the videographer in the description
> of each video segment.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide.
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> NEDRA Northwest Regional Director
> www.nedra.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> It's tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips
>
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline
>
>
>
> --
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3/22/07, Kaido Kert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The topic caught my attention as there were two recent nice news about e-bikes
First, EVUK posted a welcome news about sub £500 lithium-powered full
size e-bikes making their way to stores in UK, imported from Japan and
China
http://www.evuk.co.uk/news/index5.html
Those are sold out of a container just down the road in Inverkeithing,
I drive past it every day on my way to work. I checked them out a
year ago with a view to buying one and wasn't terribly impressed but
I'll try to have another look at this one.
There's actually another import operator in the next town over
(Rosyth) where the owner is also a colleague of mine, and I've been
offered a 10% discount, so I'll see what he's got too.
A chap I know who goes over to China fairly frequently reckons that
these sorts of bikes (even the Li-Ion one) are in the $100-$200 retail
range in China, which does not surprise me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: e-bikes in india ..
> On 3/22/07, peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > The arrival of Ultra Motors, a British electric vehicle upstart
> > ....
> > > Ultra is incorporating its more efficient motor, designed by a Russian
> > > scientist, into Hero's bikes; it plans the same for scooters and
> > > rickshaws,
> >
> > what's that ? what is more efficient in the motor designd by that
> > russian scientist ?
> > Hi EVerybody;
Nice to see the Russians working on something useful<g>! We have
enough MIG Whatevers, for now. Now if the MIG guyz could come up with a
lightweight aerodynamic CAR??The Iranians arent paying in a timely fashion
for the nukes, these guys could be working on some better EV stuff??
Indians are "Perfecting" the E bikes?I'm rootin' for the Indians here!
When I had a Indian "Teckie" helping me with my computer. I chatted him up,
his name was Pat, and, Yes, he had heard of electric cars and wanted a Riva.
I sez don't let THAT stop you, build your own! We talked about motors
batteries and stuff. Put a more human thing to outsourcing. I had told him
next time he was in CT to stop by. Same IF I were to appear in Bengalore, I
think he said.Finally, duties called and he had to get back to work.
Interesting morning.
Seeya
Bob
>
> No idea, but you could try asking them:
> http://www.ultramotors.co.uk/
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 21 Mar 2007 at 19:33, Mark Brueggemann wrote:
> Not in an Escort. It could never hold that much weight, at
> least not safely.
An Escort wagon can tote 18 golf car batteries with aplomb. Or is that a
plumb? I bet it could do 20. Twenty-four might be pushing it, but if one
used the smallest size it might fly. I wonder if you could squeeze 6 under
the back seat.
All Escort wagons squat after a few years (the rear springs always seem to
sag a bit) - just wait 'til you see what happens when you put about 10-12
batteries back there.
Another problem is that the Escort wagon starts out on the heavy side, and
gets even heavier with all that lead. So it isn't exactly zippy.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Frank,
This is one of the running test that is normally done with some motors that
the motor factory may not do. My GE 11 motor was tested for a week before I
received and ran the motor for 36 years before a weak spot in the field
winding parted.
GE the same shop that made my modified motor is now running these test now.
I use a Warp 9 motor as a temporary replacement, I can see that the brushes
were not fully seated or completely full contact curve. Also the face of
the commentator down to the main motor shaft was not insulated, which is
best to do to keep brush dust from tracking from the commentator to the
motor shaft which is chassis ground.
Before I do a running test to break in the brushes, do a ohm meter reading
of the field circuits, commentator circuits, field windings to motor case,
and commentator circuits to motor case.
While testing the ohm values of the commentator, also rotate the motor shaft
by hand. Record all results in a note book for future reference.
My resistance values when the motor was new, was over 20 megohms to ground
and after 10 years it decrease to 50 kohms, which was cause by brush dust
tracking to from the commentator to motor frame. About every 10 years, I
normally break down the motor, clean, tested, and had it re-enmal by a motor
shop, install a new set of brushes, did a low voltage running test using a
commentator stone that you can get from a motor shop.
This time, I had the whole inside of the surface of the motor case painted
with white high gloss epoxy paint and had the motor shop enamel the front of
the commentator down to the motor shaft and up to the motor bearing
surfaces.
For a break in running test, it is best to get the following items and
assemble it as testing kit:
A container to hold a 12 volt meter and about 60 amp meter. I use a clear
plastic box with snap locking type cover.
A auto type 12 volt meter and amp meter. About $15.00 for the pair.
A 500 amp battery cut off switch, the one with the big red flag sw.
A 50 amp fuse with holder or a 50 amp auto circuit breaker.
A pair of alligator clips for connecting onto a 12 volt battery.
Two wire terminal ends to connected to the motor.
Two lengths of No. 10 AWG wire, one red for the positive and one black for
the negative.
The red wire connects to the positive of the battery, goes through the fuse,
tap off small positive line to one side of the voltmeter and through the
disconnect switch, through the amp meter and than to the motor.
The black wire can go right to the motor. The is a small tap off the black
negative wire with a smaller wire to run to the voltmeter.
If the motor is not install in the EV, make sure you clamp it down into a
frame to hold the motor case from rotating. I use a wood frame that is also
a dolly, so I can roll it under the vehicle for installing.
After the battery and motor is connected up to this test unit, you will see
the battery volt reading on your volt meter. Record this voltage for a
timed reference. Now close the battery disconnect switch for just a second
to see if your motor is turning the correct way. If not than interchange
one of the A1 or A2 with the one of the field connections.
Turn on the battery disconnect switch and you will see a ampere reading
surge during startup and then it should float down for a running ampere.
Record the ampere for future reference.
Visual check the brushes and commentator while the motor is running. If
there is slight arcing, this may be normal until the brushes have form a
complete shape to the commentator so each segment forms a better make before
you break between each commentator segment.
If you hear a clicking sound, this may be one of the commentator segments
being a little higher or the brushes are position in the wrong direction for
the rotation. My brushes in my GE-11 are angle at 15 degrees so the sharp
edge of the brushes are moving away from from the surface of the
commentator.
If you motor and brushes are set for a CW rotation, you should never rotate
the motor in CCW rotation or you may chip the edges of these brushes.
If you do have some clicking noise, than use a commentator stone on the
commentator while the motor is rotating. A motor shop can supply you with
the right type of grit stone for this commentator.
Stone the commentator for about 5 minutes with a light touch moving back and
forth on the commentator. Continue to run the motor on 12 volts. Watch the
12 volt battery voltage and when the voltage is down to about 10.5 volt,
than you may need to charge it again. This is where I use a small digital
timer, to see how long it takes to discharge the battery to 10.5 volts.
I ran my Warp 9 for 8 hours and after timing the voltage drop of the
battery, I could leave and come back before the battery goes below 10.5
volts. The running ampere on my motor is about 26 amps, so my 10 amp
battery charger was too small. I am now using a 40 amp smart charger, so
the charger provided the voltage, while it was connect to the battery to
make it work.
If you have a DC-DC converter in the 40 amp range that can either work off
120 VAC or battery pack of 90 to 200 volts, that does not a battery to
provide the voltage, this will work too.
After about 6 to 8 hours of running, check the curved of the brushes to see
if they are about fully curved. The commentator should have a dark tan
color or some times call less brown color, do not sand this color off to
make it a nice bright color. The graphite of the brushes fill in the rough
surface of the commentator, so it becomes a more conductive surface.
If the commentator has a very dark color, than the commentator surface was
very rough and not smooth which received more brush compound. My GE
commentator is MICRO MIRROR to a bright mirror reflection. After 10 years
of running my very hard tool steel type of graphite silver brushes only worn
less than 1/2 way down.
If you ever replace the brushes in the future, make sure you replace them
with the same type and hardness that they are design for this commentator in
that motor. For some motors, you can get different types of brushes that
are very soft to some times that are hard as tool steel that may last over
10 years.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:56 AM
Subject: new DC series motor run-in?
> Are there any recommendations for running-in a new ADC 9" motor? I seem
> to remember someone mentioning spinning over at lower voltage to wear-in
> the brushes? Would appreciate any advice.
>
> TIA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
The 2007 Power of DC will be June 2-3, 2007 in Hagerstown, Maryland
This year we are going all the way and will have an EV AutoCross,
ScooterCross, Range Rally, Show-n-Shine, and our classic NEDRA Power
of DC drag race all held in beautiful Western Maryland thanks to the
efforts of Mike Harvey and wife Tracy.
On Saturday June 2 is the AutoCross, ScooterCross, Range Rally and
Show-n-Shine. The AutoCross will be held at Hagerstown Community
College. Tracy has also layed out an 8.5 mile Range Rally Event held
near the campus.
Then on Sunday June 3 is our Classic NEDRA Power of DC Drag Race to
be held at Mason-Dixon Dragway.
There is no cost to enter the AutoCross and other EVents on Saturday,
however donations are appreciated. Cost to enter the drag strip on
Sunday is $25.00 which is the Mason-Dixon Dragway entry fee.
We are also going to have a Dinner and Reception. Trophies will be
awarded to the winners. We will have a raffle and Jim Husted is
donating one of his famous 6.7 inch motors.
For more information on this exciting EVent visit our website at
http://www.powerofdc.com
To Register, fill out our convenient Registration Form at http://
www.powerofdc.com/lets_race.html
A downloadable file of the EVent flyer is available at http://
www.powerofdc.com/powerofdc_flyer.pdf
We are also looking for sponsorship so if you are interested just let
us know. Thanks to ThunderStruck Motors for signing on as a sponsor.
See ya in June!!
Chip Gribben
Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
240-687-1678
Mike Harvey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Joe Lado
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bruce
What a bummer! I see those electric Persians are
running a double fronted attack!
--- bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, after decades of no accidents, today a SUV
> bashed my right side (see)
>
http://geocities.com/brucedp/blazer/bashed-ev-070321.jpg
They attacked me on the rear 8^(
> and the day was going so well too ...
Man, me too!
> as a preppy hi-tech professional, and had a little
> hi-tech 'pressed-for-time' attitude (which is
> typical here).
> He had quite a polluting daily SUV commute: from his
> expensive East SF Bay home (the better part of the
> Oakland
> hills) to his SF pennisula Hi-tech company and back.
> Clearly, he was not hurting for cash.
Ahhh a general! and his imperial chariot!
> I have called my insurance to see what pennies on
> the dollar I
> will get toward the repair of my EV. It is still
> drive-able
> but, I can not open the passenger door. I am glad
> the accident
> was not worse as I need to be able to drive to my
> classes.
>
> After the insurance gets their photo and makes their
> adjustment,
> I will have to arrange for down time to turn my EV
> in for
> door & body repair. Oh what fun.
I'm glad you're okay, but I for one am quite "funned"
out concerning these anti-EV mutant humans with their
attempt to destroy our culture! Hopefully your cool
head will prevail, if not know that I'm more than
ready to come down there with my sharp stick and poke
that guy right in his anti-EV seeing eyeball 8^o
@@<-----
I just had to write and tell you I feel your pain!
Towing, racing, and now just an innocent daily driver!
Sorry I'm not feeling very "turn the other cheek"
these days 8^o
Hope all goes okay! at least EVeryones come out unhurt
and we live to fight another day 8^)
best of luck
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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I did a 70 Datsun pick -up, it came to me with out an engine or trans, thats
the way the guy bought it, we restored the truck to new condition while
converting it, We didnt have a trans, so why look for the correct fit???? it
was to old to find a OEM trans, were makeing adaptor plates for a Warp 9, so
any trans will work, just make it fit the trans you have on hand, and make a
rear mount, not hard at all.
after makeing the plate to fit motor to trans, it went right in, even the
shifter fit thru the hole in the floor with out any cutting, only thing we had
to do was replace the out-put flange comeing out of the rear /trans to the
drive shaft. 26$ and 15 mins of welding .
it worked, looked good, did fine .... ev-blue
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim,
I was trying not to step on any toes. Some old time tricks of the trade are
pretty good. Baking soda didn't sound right, I agree with you, it might not be
real bad, might even work. But I think best advise with commutators is to keep
your greasy little hands off 'em. Literally and figuratively. Comms don't
like oil or grease. Don't touch it unless you are wearing clean white gloves
or have a clean cloth. Even fingerprints are bad. And then the old adage---if
it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The commutator and brushes comprise a system. Key to this system is the film
or dark residue that developes on the copper surface of the comm. The film
reduces the friction and plays an important role in contact voltage drop
minimization. The bad part is that new motors do not come with comm film. The
film results from running the motor which can take many hours, days or longer.
So if your motor has a nice film on the comm, the last thing you want to do is
to remove it. Without the film, the whole commutation process is less
efficient, meaning more heat and increased brush wear.
This copper-carbon-film thing is a chemical process. So I'd advise to keep
all other chemical agents out of there. This includes electrical contact
cleaners. I like Jim's advise, so if your comm gets contaminated, use momma's
sink and oven. If it's real bad, get a professional to recondition it.
Jeff
Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Jeff
I saw you'd responded to this and I was thinking thank
God, Jeff's gonna field this one for me and I see you
tossed it to me, LMAO. First let me deal with Mentos
Mike and I'll get to this thread 8^)
--- MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> Hey Jeff, are you TRYING to get me in trouble with
> Jim ? ;-P
> I don't need any help on that front. (I just use
> red yarn)
No, no you don't, but then I suspect I'm not the only
one, on that regard 8^o
> IIRC
What does this mean, seen it used, can't figuer it
out.
> it was Jim who approved me to use the baking
> soda as a light abraisive to clean up a commutator.
> I can't prove that unless I can find the e-mail.
That's right buddy cause I have no recall of any such
thing. I know I'm getting old but I ain't that old.
I want to see this email! Sounds to me like you were
talking to Jim the battery man, LMAO! Battery posts
Mike not terminal posts 8^P
> He's never called me, even when he was in Anchorage
> visiting his siter :-( so it must be in an e-mail.
Again another tortured, mutilated and twisted wad of
information. How was I supposed to know you went to
bed at 7PM when the sun said noon?? I emailed you but
I didn't return to my sisters (see you add an s in
there) until 9PM. Your lucky actually being what I
know now, I'd just drive on over and invite my self on
in drink all your coffee, and you know what I bet I do
have that email. Sorry I'm a wiennie boy no exeptions
in bed by 7, LMAO!
> So I should be able to prove it. I don't suspect
> that it looks too bad inside my motor after almost a
> year of driving. The dust accumulation on the
> outside is limited to bottom rear side of the
> housing near the Transmission.
>
> And too, if he lets Plasmaboy run the Siamese 8's
> without cooling, I don't think I'd get cross with
> him for not cooling my single 9".
See you guys think I have any say. At the Wayland
juice bar it's Plasma Boys way or the highway.
Sometimes it's both though and it makes for a
screaming ride 8^D I've had a few, but I can't talk
about them Cheryl might be reading 8^o
> Careful though, you might talk like you're on his
> side, but he's suspicious of EVeryone :-) The trick
> with the yarn is wait till he takes it under, wait
> for 1 post and then hold on for dear life :-)
First off Jeff and I talk all the time so I don't know
where your going there, LMAO! Hey Jeff 8^)
When I used to run Beech Electric I'd tell my guys if
you screw up and I'm chewing on you don't squirm it
just makes me bite down harder 8^) BTW Mike you ever
been spooled?? LMAO!
> > Hmmm, he says "blow it out and take some baking
> soda and water to
> > the commutators to
> > clean them up." I wonder if that is an approved
> method. Jim?
Again Jeff no I didn't, but here's my take. It would
probably work but to what purpose. That dark brown to
black patina is what you want to see. Most of the
higher voltage motors have some streaking and film
burnoff most are not bad. Anyway leave that film
alone it's good for you like vegetables 8^) Being
I've never used baking soda on a comm I can only
speculate. I doubt it would even remove the film
unless you were rubbing it in with a stick like you
were trying to start a fire.
I don't really see that it would hurt it much if Mike
would like to try. Actually the film is pretty tough.
I get a fair share of fix as needed stuff. I'll run
180 grit aluminum oxide paper over the comm on the
lathe to see if there is wear and a turn is needed.
The film is left in worn areas and I can see how true
the comm is. Lets just say I think it'd take some
serious soda scubbing before you could do any damage,
IMO.
As far as cleanup goes I use a hot water and soap
parts washer. It's more like doing the dishes but I
don't have to breathe and work with solvents. I also
have to bake them out to remove the water. But hey if
the wife says go ahead use the sink and oven your set
8^) Much more enviro than a can of brake cleaner. I
use Safety Kleen for proper disposal of sludge and
water change-overs in case you all wondered.
Bottom line is if your comm is worn or pitted or
otherwise looking like it needs abrasives have it
turned and undercut. If its got crap on it (more an
old lift motor) a simple soap and water scrubdown is
all she'll need. If you go this route you will need
to dry it qickly as not to produce rust forming.
Believe it or not Both Beech CA. and Warfield CA. used
household ovens way back when. I wasn't there yet but
they told me they blew the doors off one when I guy
loaded it to full, LMAO. Ohhh the good old days.
If you decide to surprise your Mrs. with some oven
fresh 9" armature, preheat the oven to 350 degress,
shut it off and insert armature and let it heat up for
1/2 hour 8^) Hey I'm just saying it can be done.
As for weatherizing motors. This is one area that
I've seen huge differences in. John B's 11 year old
ADC looked brand new last year when we went through
Boise. I've seen others that are way rusted outside
and inside. Outside's not so bad but inside it can do
damage. The dryer you can keep the motor the better.
You don't want to enclose it though even blowered.
Now cooling is more important. A smaller motor will
work harder and need more cooling than a larger motor
pushing X load.
The cooler you keep the motor the longer it's life
will be.
Sorry I had to defend my good name before addressing
this thread 8^)
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I have a 1981 Ford Escort with 20 US 2000 batteries installed. I suspect
that the suspension might have been enhanced but it carries 15 batteries in
the back and 5 in the front. I did remove the rear seat when I added the
last two batteries. The schocks still work properly and it does not bottom
out when going over a bump.
Beano -- 1981 Ford Escort EV
Ted Sanders
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: A few newbie questions.
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:28:09 -0500
On 21 Mar 2007 at 19:33, Mark Brueggemann wrote:
> Not in an Escort. It could never hold that much weight, at
> least not safely.
An Escort wagon can tote 18 golf car batteries with aplomb. Or is that a
plumb? I bet it could do 20. Twenty-four might be pushing it, but if one
used the smallest size it might fly. I wonder if you could squeeze 6 under
the back seat.
All Escort wagons squat after a few years (the rear springs always seem to
sag a bit) - just wait 'til you see what happens when you put about 10-12
batteries back there.
Another problem is that the Escort wagon starts out on the heavy side, and
gets even heavier with all that lead. So it isn't exactly zippy.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I installed Aquapro on 4 batteries (12 cells) that I couldn't reach
for watering. Pricey, but I was impressed with the quality and ease
of use. Seems to work as advertised. Their North America rep was
helpful and pleasant to deal with through email. I would love to have
it on all my batteries, but no way I will spend that kind of money for
something I can do with a Napa watering can.
Regards,
Constance in N.C.
Grinning since Sept. '05
1980 Lectric Leopard
On 3/21/07, Barry C. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am new to this group and in the process of learning and searching for
a good donor car. I have a few questions.
1. Is this the right place to ask basic newbie questions?
2. Does anyone use battery equalizers like Powercheq?
3. I also have been reading about the single point watering system,
Aquapro. Do people use this type of system. They seem like it would be
really helpful.
I am wanting to build a EV that I can commute from Hayward to Oakland.
Able to run 65-70mph. 35-50mi. And also have the ability to carry 2
adults, 2 children for around the town errands on occasion.
This is doable?
Right now I was looking at a
Ford escort wagon
Warp 9 motor
Curtis 1231 controller
Trojan T145 6V batteries. (144V 24 batteries)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
from Mick Abraham mentioning David Roden's comments:
...
>Now consider an on-board engine generator/charger system (ignoring for the
>moment David Roden's worthwhile remarks about pollution issues). ...
>
>(Side note: the above scenario would start with chemical energy (in the
>fuel) converted to mechanical energy in the engine, converted to electrical
>energy in the charger then back to mechanical energy in the electric drive
>train, with a possible side order of conversion to/from chemical energy in
>the on-board batteries). A regular ICE vehicle would also start with fuel
>and finish with mechanical drive energy, but with fewer conversions (and
>fewer energy losses) along the way. Pollution from the standard Detroit
>dinosaur burner would also probably be lower as pointed out by David Roden.
>That's because engine generator emissions have not been regulated and
>legislated to the same extent that vehicle emissions have.)
I have heard about the pollution issue of generator engines. What about using
a small motorcycle engine? I know that 2-stroke motorcycles pollute more than
4-stroke, but how does the 4-stroke compare to standard automobile engines, and
the generator? And can you do much to reduce it?
Thanks,Brian
---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland,
Im at the stage where I need to run in my adv 9' motor for my 928 porsche.
This will really help.
Jeff
Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Frank,
This is one of the running test that is normally done with some motors that
the motor factory may not do. My GE 11 motor was tested for a week before I
received and ran the motor for 36 years before a weak spot in the field
winding parted.
GE the same shop that made my modified motor is now running these test now.
I use a Warp 9 motor as a temporary replacement, I can see that the brushes
were not fully seated or completely full contact curve. Also the face of
the commentator down to the main motor shaft was not insulated, which is
best to do to keep brush dust from tracking from the commentator to the
motor shaft which is chassis ground.
Before I do a running test to break in the brushes, do a ohm meter reading
of the field circuits, commentator circuits, field windings to motor case,
and commentator circuits to motor case.
While testing the ohm values of the commentator, also rotate the motor shaft
by hand. Record all results in a note book for future reference.
My resistance values when the motor was new, was over 20 megohms to ground
and after 10 years it decrease to 50 kohms, which was cause by brush dust
tracking to from the commentator to motor frame. About every 10 years, I
normally break down the motor, clean, tested, and had it re-enmal by a motor
shop, install a new set of brushes, did a low voltage running test using a
commentator stone that you can get from a motor shop.
This time, I had the whole inside of the surface of the motor case painted
with white high gloss epoxy paint and had the motor shop enamel the front of
the commentator down to the motor shaft and up to the motor bearing
surfaces.
For a break in running test, it is best to get the following items and
assemble it as testing kit:
A container to hold a 12 volt meter and about 60 amp meter. I use a clear
plastic box with snap locking type cover.
A auto type 12 volt meter and amp meter. About $15.00 for the pair.
A 500 amp battery cut off switch, the one with the big red flag sw.
A 50 amp fuse with holder or a 50 amp auto circuit breaker.
A pair of alligator clips for connecting onto a 12 volt battery.
Two wire terminal ends to connected to the motor.
Two lengths of No. 10 AWG wire, one red for the positive and one black for
the negative.
The red wire connects to the positive of the battery, goes through the fuse,
tap off small positive line to one side of the voltmeter and through the
disconnect switch, through the amp meter and than to the motor.
The black wire can go right to the motor. The is a small tap off the black
negative wire with a smaller wire to run to the voltmeter.
If the motor is not install in the EV, make sure you clamp it down into a
frame to hold the motor case from rotating. I use a wood frame that is also
a dolly, so I can roll it under the vehicle for installing.
After the battery and motor is connected up to this test unit, you will see
the battery volt reading on your volt meter. Record this voltage for a
timed reference. Now close the battery disconnect switch for just a second
to see if your motor is turning the correct way. If not than interchange
one of the A1 or A2 with the one of the field connections.
Turn on the battery disconnect switch and you will see a ampere reading
surge during startup and then it should float down for a running ampere.
Record the ampere for future reference.
Visual check the brushes and commentator while the motor is running. If
there is slight arcing, this may be normal until the brushes have form a
complete shape to the commentator so each segment forms a better make before
you break between each commentator segment.
If you hear a clicking sound, this may be one of the commentator segments
being a little higher or the brushes are position in the wrong direction for
the rotation. My brushes in my GE-11 are angle at 15 degrees so the sharp
edge of the brushes are moving away from from the surface of the
commentator.
If you motor and brushes are set for a CW rotation, you should never rotate
the motor in CCW rotation or you may chip the edges of these brushes.
If you do have some clicking noise, than use a commentator stone on the
commentator while the motor is rotating. A motor shop can supply you with
the right type of grit stone for this commentator.
Stone the commentator for about 5 minutes with a light touch moving back and
forth on the commentator. Continue to run the motor on 12 volts. Watch the
12 volt battery voltage and when the voltage is down to about 10.5 volt,
than you may need to charge it again. This is where I use a small digital
timer, to see how long it takes to discharge the battery to 10.5 volts.
I ran my Warp 9 for 8 hours and after timing the voltage drop of the
battery, I could leave and come back before the battery goes below 10.5
volts. The running ampere on my motor is about 26 amps, so my 10 amp
battery charger was too small. I am now using a 40 amp smart charger, so
the charger provided the voltage, while it was connect to the battery to
make it work.
If you have a DC-DC converter in the 40 amp range that can either work off
120 VAC or battery pack of 90 to 200 volts, that does not a battery to
provide the voltage, this will work too.
After about 6 to 8 hours of running, check the curved of the brushes to see
if they are about fully curved. The commentator should have a dark tan
color or some times call less brown color, do not sand this color off to
make it a nice bright color. The graphite of the brushes fill in the rough
surface of the commentator, so it becomes a more conductive surface.
If the commentator has a very dark color, than the commentator surface was
very rough and not smooth which received more brush compound. My GE
commentator is MICRO MIRROR to a bright mirror reflection. After 10 years
of running my very hard tool steel type of graphite silver brushes only worn
less than 1/2 way down.
If you ever replace the brushes in the future, make sure you replace them
with the same type and hardness that they are design for this commentator in
that motor. For some motors, you can get different types of brushes that
are very soft to some times that are hard as tool steel that may last over
10 years.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank John"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:56 AM
Subject: new DC series motor run-in?
> Are there any recommendations for running-in a new ADC 9" motor? I seem
> to remember someone mentioning spinning over at lower voltage to wear-in
> the brushes? Would appreciate any advice.
>
> TIA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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>
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