Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

I hadn't noticed that they were using the hub motors, thanks for pointing this up.  I will be a bit more cautious before I consider getting one, though I'll still keep open the possibility.  On top of the other risks they seem to be asking from their pioneer first customers, that one seems like

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

Wheel motors have a lot of issues, but one of the biggest is the unsprung mass ratio problem, which is especially bad on a lightweight car like the Aptera. On Sun, Jul 9, 2023 at 7:10 PM Ryan Fulcher via EV wrote: > Of course, Aptera is also "breaking the mold" with their hub motors. > Yes, Time

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

Of course, Aptera is also "breaking the mold" with their hub motors. Yes, Time will tell of course. And I hope that we start to see them hitting the road by the end of this year. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL:

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

On 9 Jul 2023 at 20:14, Alan Arrison via EV wrote: > There is a reason nobody is using wheel motors on highway capable vehicles. It does seem that many EV developers veer onto that road. If memory serves, that was the original proposal for the Mitsubishi Imiev. Eventually they abandon the ide

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

Thanks for those informative videos. It still isn't real world data. There is a reason nobody is using wheel motors on highway capable vehicles. On 7/8/2023 8:51 PM, Ryan Fulcher wrote: So this? https://youtu.be/CqPMtEIT3f4 Or this: https://youtu.be/1alRUqx9UX8 On Sat, Jul 8, 2023, 17:46 Al

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

Sat, 08 Jul 2023 20:13:37 +0200 From: "EV List Lackey" To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins. Message-ID: <64a9c371.6781.f6a0...@evpost.drmm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I'm not an expe

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

So this? https://youtu.be/CqPMtEIT3f4 Or this: https://youtu.be/1alRUqx9UX8 On Sat, Jul 8, 2023, 17:46 Alan Arrison via EV wrote: > I was excited about the Aptera until I saw the hub motors. > > I'll pass until I see some real world reliability demonstrated. > -- next part

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

I was excited about the Aptera until I saw the hub motors. I'll pass until I see some real world reliability demonstrated. On 7/7/2023 3:30 AM, Ryan Fulcher via EV wrote: I'm looking forward to being finally proven wrong about the practicality of PV on your EV when the Aptera starts being deli

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

I'm not an expert or engineer, but I suspect that we're about at the stage where it would be possible to build an EV capable of a few dozen miles of daily travel, using solely sunlight from its own PV. It might even be a bit more civilized and comfortable than the solar challenge racers. In

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

From: Ryan FulcherI'm looking forward to being finally proven wrong about the practicality of PV on your EV when the Aptera starts being delivered... For a decade the Eindhoven Solar team has 4 cars win the World Solar Challenge and an RV for proof of concept that solar vehicles work. Howeve

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

That is sort of impressive, however at 18mph there is basically no aerodynamic drag. And yes, a century old baker electric was already very efficient. It's easy to tell because the waste heat produced was very low even back then. The Aptera remains efficient at freeway speeds, and the differentia

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

John Lussmyer via EV wrote: People would also need to be willing to accept the crash safety level of a motorcycle. I don't think it's nearly that bad. Many small and light ICE vehicles have nevertheless passed crash test standards and had excellent safety records. It just requires that the de

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

I believe the Aptera should be somewhat more safe than a motorcycle. I think they have crash test data and their passenger shell is very strong. It is more efficient than a motorcycle as well. I didn't intend to get into the weeds regarding the engineering trade offs... I just thought the Aptera

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

On 7/7/2023 3:48 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: But, nothing says that a car needs to weigh two tons to transport one person 30 miles per day (the daily average according to AAA). It *is* possible for an ultra-efficient and streamlined vehicle to do that on solar power alone. There have been pl

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

Ryan Fulcher via EV wrote: I absolutely understand and am of the mind to still proclaim that PV on a normal car is still impractical. The only reason it works on the Aptera [and other super-efficient vehicles] is that it has the aerodynamics and efficiency of an electrathon. I agree. A normal

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

An RV is a totally different case, especially one that's a trailer, as you want power for the house loads while it's parked. Keep in mind a few kWh in an RV goes a long way, but in an EV, even an Aptera, it's not all that much energy. Also, you've already "paid the devil" to move the RV with its

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

I absolutely understand and am of the mind to still proclaim that PV on a normal car is still impractical. Although the https://lightshiprv.com/ is yet another of those edge cases that I've always thought might make sense and am glad that someone is finally pursuing at scale. The only reason it w

[EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

> I bet you'll be lucky to get 15, and you'll have to park > in the sun with no shade to do it. If you just took the > same cells and covered your parking space > with them, it's a better use of them. The practical thinkers here have been beating the "solar powered car" boosters on this list o

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

PV on an EV will help a little, but it is far better to put the PV on your house. We have a 1.5kW Solar option for our vans which have a large flat roof, and there is little aero penalty, and it gets only about 15 miles a day peak. We also sell a refrigerated option that's all electric, and this c

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.

I'm looking forward to being finally proven wrong about the practicality of PV on your EV when the Aptera starts being delivered... Of course they did it by making a body that is multiple times as aerodynamically efficient as your average car. At 100Wh/mil (10miles/kWh) what would be 4-10miles wo