Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 27-déc.-06, à 20:11, Jef Allbright a écrit : Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Jef Allbright writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: But our main criterion for what to believe should be what is true, right? I'm very interested in whether the apparent tautology is my misunderstanding, his

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-28 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: It's a strange quality of delusions that psychotic people are even more certain of their truth than non-deluded people are certain of things which have reasonable empirical evidence in their favour. Yet this seems understandable. The psychotic person is believing

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-28 Thread Johnathan Corgan
On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 00:37 +1100, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Sure, it's a defect in the brain chemistry, but the delusional person will give you his reasons for his belief: [...] This is very similar to the arguments of people with religious convictions, who will cite evidence in support

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-28 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: ... This is very similar to the arguments of people with religious convictions, who will cite evidence in support of their beliefs up to a point, but it soon becomes clear that no matter how paltry this evidence is shown to be, they will still maintain their belief.

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-28 Thread John Mikes
On 12/28/06, Johnathan Corgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 00:37 +1100, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Sure, it's a defect in the brain chemistry, but the delusional person will give you his reasons for his belief: [...] This is very similar to the arguments of people with

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-28 Thread Jef Allbright
Bruno Marchal wrote: Although we all share the illusion of a direct and immediate sense of consciousness, on what basis can you claim that it actually is real? Because we cannot doubt it. It is the real message, imo, of Descartes diagonal argument: it is the fixed point of doubt. If we

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-28 Thread Brent Meeker
Jef Allbright wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Although we all share the illusion of a direct and immediate sense of consciousness, on what basis can you claim that it actually is real? Because we cannot doubt it. It is the real message, imo, of Descartes diagonal argument: it is the fixed

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-28 Thread Jef Allbright
Brent Meeker wrote: Jef Allbright wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Although we all share the illusion of a direct and immediate sense of consciousness, on what basis can you claim that it actually is real? Because we cannot doubt it. It is the real message, imo, of Descartes diagonal

Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases

2006-12-28 Thread Brent Meeker
Jef Allbright wrote: Brent Meeker wrote: Jef Allbright wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Although we all share the illusion of a direct and immediate sense of consciousness, on what basis can you claim that it actually is real? Because we cannot doubt it. It is the real message, imo, of

RE: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order Belief)

2006-12-28 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: This is very similar to the arguments of people with religious convictions, who will cite evidence in support of their beliefs up to a point, but it soon becomes clear that no matter how paltry this evidence is shown to be, they will still maintain their belief.