The Precipice

2008-12-25 Thread Kim Jones
The Day The Earth Stood Still - remake version in cinemas now Just saw it - at the very first session at 9.30 AM. This film is a whole lot better than the reviews make out and a whole lot better than I expected. Keanu Reeves is Keanu as usual and only acts with his left eyebrow, but this wo

Re: Machines was:Kim 2.1

2008-12-25 Thread Abram Demski
Kim, Right, that can't be done-- maybe such a system exists, but if so then our rationality basically fails to apply to it. So as Gunther says, the broader version of mechanism "can be granted by every scientifically minded person". --Abram On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Kim Jones wrote: > >

Re: KIM 2.3 (was Re: Time)

2008-12-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Kim, On 25 Dec 2008, at 06:21, Kim Jones wrote: > > A bit of an end-of-year ramble. For the multi-lingual, illogically- > minded, lateral thinkers: My last post was a bit self-destructive ramble as I am able to do once a time. But that's ok. (I hope I am not shocking). It is rather kind o

Re: Machines was:Kim 2.1

2008-12-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 26/12/2008, at 5:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 25 Dec 2008, at 08:05, Abram Demski wrote: > >> >> Bruno, >> >> I agree with Gunther about the two types of machine. The broader >> machine is any system that can be logically described-- a system that >> is governed by rules and has a defin

Dharmas, type-F monism and COMP-OMs

2008-12-25 Thread Günther Greindl
Hello Bruno, this is an answer for a mail a few weeks back, did not have the time up to now. >With comp, we have an (non > denombrable) infinity of computations, going through a (denombrable) > infinity of states, and only few of them, I would say will have 1-OM > role or 3-OM role. Even a few

Re: Machines was:Kim 2.1

2008-12-25 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, > But no weakening of comp based on nature is > known to escape the replicability. Even the non cloning theorem in QM > cannot be used to escape the UDA conclusion. I already wanted to ask you on this one: you have said before on the list that quantum-no cloning does not make a problem

Re: Machines was:Kim 2.1

2008-12-25 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, >> This conception can, I think, be indeed taken for granted by every >> scientifically minded person. > > Why ? It is an assumption too. What could we taken it for granted? Yes, it is an assumption - that is why is wrote "scientifically minded" - if you are in any way naturalist (and a

Re: Machines was:Kim 2.1

2008-12-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Dec 2008, at 08:05, Abram Demski wrote: > > Bruno, > > I agree with Gunther about the two types of machine. The broader > machine is any system that can be logically described-- a system that > is governed by rules and has a definite description. Then Church thesis entails it is not broade

Re: Reality

2008-12-25 Thread John Mikes
Bruno et al.: I don't feel comfortable with the view "reality *OF* something". Reality IMO is the unfathomable existence (whatever that may be) and *WE - machines, mind,* you name it are having access to portions that we interpret (realize?) in ways *we can.* This portion (part, view, ensemble, w