Re: On the Sequencing of Observer Moments

2011-05-10 Thread Stephen Paul King
Hi Brent and Everything List Members, Let me start over and focus on the sequencing of OMs. I argue that the Schrodinger Equation does not work to generate a sequencing of Observer moments for multiple interacting observers because it assumes a physically unreal notion of time, the Newtonia

Re: Animal consciousness and self-consciousness (was Re: Self-aware <= Consciousness?)

2011-05-10 Thread John Mikes
Hi, Bruno, excuse me for getting lost between you and Brent. You are absolutely right: I did not follow, study and understand those many thousand pages of discussions over the more than a decade on this list, together with the many tenthousand pages (not) learned to understand them. Indeed I am out

Re: Animal consciousness and self-consciousness (was Re: Self-aware <= Consciousness?)

2011-05-10 Thread David Nyman
On 10 May 2011 19:11, meekerdb wrote: >> This seems to me to be a very central point.  Chalmers gives very >> convincing arguments why an "Aristotelian machine's" expressed >> behaviour (including its "thoughts" and "beliefs") are >> indistinguishable from a conscious person's - excepting only th

Re: Animal consciousness and self-consciousness (was Re: Self-aware <= Consciousness?)

2011-05-10 Thread meekerdb
On 5/10/2011 9:01 AM, David Nyman wrote: On 10 May 2011 13:21, Bruno Marchal wrote: What does it mean for numbers to understand? Suppose I can answer this in a way that you understand. Then it means the same things for the numbers. This seems to me to be a very central point. Chalmers gi

Re: Animal consciousness and self-consciousness (was Re: Self-aware <= Consciousness?)

2011-05-10 Thread David Nyman
On 10 May 2011 13:21, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> What does it mean for numbers to understand? > > Suppose I can answer this in a way that you understand. Then it means the > same things for the numbers. This seems to me to be a very central point. Chalmers gives very convincing arguments why an "A

Re: Animal consciousness and self-consciousness (was Re: Self-aware <= Consciousness?)

2011-05-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi John, On 09 May 2011, at 21:35, John Mikes wrote: A stimulating discussion, indeed. I side with Brent in most of his remarks and question SOME of Bruno's in my 'unfounded' agnostic worldview of 'some' complexity of unrestricted everything - beyond our capabilities to grasp. Which IMO d

Re: Animal consciousness and self-consciousness (was Re: Self-aware <= Consciousness?)

2011-05-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 May 2011, at 20:30, meekerdb wrote: On 5/9/2011 11:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 May 2011, at 18:57, meekerdb wrote: On 5/9/2011 1:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 May 2011, at 19:36, meekerdb wrote: On 5/7/2011 8:19 AM, John Mikes wrote: Thanks, Russell, I am gladly standin