Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Jun 2011, at 07:14, Rex Allen wrote: On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:42 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 07 Jun 2011, at 00:52, Rex Allen wrote: On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: It is not that hard to get, so would be worth your

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Rex Allen
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 09 Jun 2011, at 07:14, Rex Allen wrote: On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:42 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 07 Jun 2011, at 00:52, Rex Allen wrote: On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Russell Standish

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Rex Allen
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: ? On the contrary. It was your argument against determinism which I took as incompatible with science or scientific attitude. But third person determinism does not entails first person determinism, nor do determinism in

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Jason Resch
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote: I'm also fine with block-multiverse. And with a block-mindscape. Neither of which allow for free will. Since both of which are static, unchanging, and unchangeable - making it impossible that anyone could have done

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Jun 2011, at 18:20, Rex Allen wrote: On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: ? On the contrary. It was your argument against determinism which I took as incompatible with science or scientific attitude. But third person determinism does not entails

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Jun 2011, at 17:00, Rex Allen wrote: On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 09 Jun 2011, at 07:14, Rex Allen wrote: On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:42 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 07 Jun 2011, at 00:52, Rex Allen wrote: On Mon, Jun 6,

Re: COMP refutation paper - finally out

2011-06-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Colin, On 07 Jun 2011, at 09:42, Colin Hales wrote: Hi, Hales, C. G. 'On the Status of Computationalism as a Law of Nature', International Journal of Machine Consciousness vol. 3, no. 1, 2011. 1-35. http://dx.doi.org/10.1142/S1793843011000613 The paper has finally been published.

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread meekerdb
On 6/9/2011 1:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jun 2011, at 18:20, Rex Allen wrote: Dr. StrangeDennett: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Determinism. Repurposing the term free will is a propaganda move, to make the medicine go down easier. Science redefines the term all the

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread meekerdb
On 6/9/2011 1:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I do have a precise theory, (not in my thesis, though) and free-will begins with Löbianity. From this I infer that very plausibly, worms and ants (and perhaps communists) have no free-will, but that spiders, octopus, mice, dogs and humans have it. I

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread meekerdb
On 6/9/2011 11:34 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com mailto:rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote: I'm also fine with block-multiverse. And with a block-mindscape. Neither of which allow for free will. Since both of which are

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 02:15:47PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: He seems to disagree with compatibilism; but he essentially agrees on the facts; he just doesn't want to use the phrase free will because he thinks that's redefining the terms to mean something other than what people normally mean.

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 10:17:46PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: I do have a precise theory, (not in my thesis, though) and free-will begins with Löbianity. From this I infer that very plausibly, worms and ants (and perhaps communists) have no free-will, but that spiders, octopus, mice, dogs

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread meekerdb
On 6/9/2011 3:41 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 02:15:47PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: He seems to disagree with compatibilism; but he essentially agrees on the facts; he just doesn't want to use the phrase free will because he thinks that's redefining the terms to mean

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Rex Allen
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote: I'm also fine with block-multiverse. And with a block-mindscape. Neither of which allow for free will. Since both of which are static,

Re: Mathematical closure of consciousness and computation

2011-06-09 Thread Rex Allen
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:18 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/9/2011 3:41 PM, Russell Standish wrote: As I always say, free will is the ability to do something stupid. And from an evolutionary point of view, that is actually a useful ability. We are in violent agreement. :-)