Re: Church Turing be dammed.

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > On May 31, 2:33 am, Jason Resch wrote: > > On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > > > > On May 29, 1:45 am, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > > So which of the following four link(s) in the logical chain do you > take > >

Re: free will and mathematics

On 01.06.2012 21:30 meekerdb said the following: On 6/1/2012 11:43 AM, Brian Tenneson wrote: Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII string "free will" means and neither do you. John K Clark Of course there are various degrees to which it can be free but that doesn't mean "free will" is a m

Re: free will and mathematics

On 01.06.2012 20:48 meekerdb said the following: On 6/1/2012 8:59 AM, John Clark wrote: Believers in 'contra causal free will' suppose that it did not, that my 'soul' or 'spirit' initiated the physical process without any determinative physical antecedent. A belief that was enormously popul

Re: Free will in MWI

On Jun 1, 7:07 pm, RMahoney wrote: > On Jun 1, 1:31 pm, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On May 31, 6:14 pm, RMahoney wrote: > > > They seem to think this free will has some ability to manipulate the > > > Universe in ways that avoid it's laws. > > > Free will is one of the laws of the universe. We a

Re: Free will in MWI

On Jun 1, 1:31 pm, Craig Weinberg wrote: > On May 31, 6:14 pm, RMahoney wrote: > > They seem to think this free will has some ability to manipulate the > > Universe in ways that avoid it's laws. > > Free will is one of the laws of the universe. We are made of the > universe, therefore whatever

Re: Free will in MWI

On Jun 1, 12:27 pm, meekerdb wrote: > On 6/1/2012 8:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > >> They seem to think this free will has some ability to manipulate the > >> Universe in ways that avoid it's laws. > > > Not the compatibilist one. I think free will is not prevented at all by > > determinism.

Re: Free will in MWI

> > Does a Free Willer believe they willed themselves into existence in > > this Universe? > > Some can believe that. Open question in comp. Actually "this universe" > is a quite vague concept with comp. > Don't know comp. As far as I'm concerned, universe can be everything, all permutations. I don

Re: free will and mathematics

On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 Brian Tenneson wrote: > Freedom is defined by the observer. > Exactly! A man is walking down a road and spots a fork in the road far ahead. He knows of advantages and disadvantages to both paths so he isn't sure if he will go right or left, he hadn't decided. Now imagine a po

Re: free will and mathematics

The fact that free will is debated lends credence to the notion that "Free will" is not meaningless. "Free will" has to mean something before it can be attacked. On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 12:30 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 6/1/2012 11:43 AM, Brian Tenneson wrote: > > > >> Cannot comment, don't know w

Re: free will and mathematics

On 6/1/2012 11:43 AM, Brian Tenneson wrote: Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII string "free will" means and neither do you. John K Clark Of course there are various degrees to which it can be free but that doesn't mean "free will" is a meaningless string. Freedom is defined

Re: free will and mathematics

On 6/1/2012 8:59 AM, John Clark wrote: > Believers in 'contra causal free will' suppose that it did not, that my 'soul' or 'spirit' initiated the physical process without any determinative physical antecedent. A belief that was enormously popular during the dark ages and led to a tho

Re: free will and mathematics

> > Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII string "free will" means and neither > do you. > > John K Clark > > > Of course there are various degrees to which it can be free but that doesn't mean "free will" is a meaningless string. Freedom is defined by the observer. I note the freedom I have i

Re: Free will in MWI

On May 31, 6:14 pm, RMahoney wrote: > Following the last couple of weeks of exchange between Craig and John > Clark... > > Interesting. > > I would say John has the edge. > > And I have some comments... > > Does a Free Willer believe they willed themselves into existence in > this Universe? Some

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 6/1/2012 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You might be disturbed by the fact that in experience 2, the "original" remains the same person, so we don't count him as a new person, each time he steps in the box. This, in my opinion, illustrates again that we have to use RSSA instead of ASSA. Sup

Re: Free will in MWI

On 6/1/2012 8:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: They seem to think this free will has some ability to manipulate the Universe in ways that avoid it's laws. Not the compatibilist one. I think free will is not prevented at all by determinism. It just boils down to how you want to define 'free will'.

Re: Free will in MWI

On 01.06.2012 19:19 meekerdb said the following: On 6/1/2012 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 23:12, meekerdb wrote: ... Sam Harris just wrote a short book titled "Free Will" and from the comments it has elicited it's apparent that there is very little agreement as to what i

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 01 Jun 2012, at 19:09, meekerdb wrote: On 6/1/2012 7:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 21:38, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal w

Re: Free will in MWI

On 6/1/2012 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 23:12, meekerdb wrote: On 5/31/2012 1:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 31, 3:49 pm, John Clark wrote: There were reasons behind Lewis Carroll's writings and so what he wrote was nonsense not gibberish; "I do six impossible thi

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 6/1/2012 7:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 21:38, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@u

Re: free will and mathematics

On Thu, May 31, 2012 meekerdb wrote: > Look up 'teleology'. > Why? I already know it means things happen for a purpose, although it is never made clear who's purpose were talking about or what his purpose is supposed to be. One thing is clear, they had a purpose for a reason or they had a purpo

Re: Free will in MWI

On 01 Jun 2012, at 00:14, RMahoney wrote: Following the last couple of weeks of exchange between Craig and John Clark... Interesting. I would say John has the edge. And I have some comments... Does a Free Willer believe they willed themselves into existence in this Universe? Some can beli

Re: Free will in MWI

On 31 May 2012, at 23:12, meekerdb wrote: On 5/31/2012 1:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 31, 3:49 pm, John Clark wrote: There were reasons behind Lewis Carroll's writings and so what he wrote was nonsense not gibberish; "I do six impossible things before breakfast" is nonsense, "sdf

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

On 31 May 2012, at 21:38, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2012, at 18:29, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 May 2012, at 22:26, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM