Re: The Plant Teachers

On 08/02/2013, at 9:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 07 Feb 2013, at 10:57, Kim Jones wrote: > >> Graham Hancock's experiences with Ayahuasca >> >> Of course some will immediately denounce this post as irrelevant to the >> search for a TOE. But, recall that CONSCIOUSNESS is the ultimate fi

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/7/2013 3:52 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 7:04 PM, John Clark wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >>>>> I'm not claiming that intelligence == mind. > > Do y

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:52 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Tuesday, February 5, 2013 6:00:17 PM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 7:49 PM, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 Telmo Menezes wrote: >>> >>> > I'm not claiming that intelligence == mind. >

Re: The Plant Teachers

On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 07:31:06PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote: > > > > Salvia, like Ketamine, (but quite less dangerous, and anti-addictive) has a > > dissociative effect which might illustrate the "Galois connection" between > > 1p-mind (consciousness) and its 3p local handlings (the 3p-brains). B

Re: context, comp, and multiverses

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 06 Feb 2013, at 18:02, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 06 Feb 2013, at 12:19, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 2/7/2013 3:52 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 7:04 PM, John Clark wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Telmo Menezes >>> wrote: >>> >>>>>> I'm not claiming t

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> On 2/7/2013 3:52 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 7:04 PM, John Clark wrote: >>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, meekerdb wrote: >>> On 2/7/2013 3:52 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 7:04 PM, John Clark w

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/7/2013 3:52

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > >

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:35

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Thursday, February 7, 2013 11:35:08 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > On 2/7/2013 9:42 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Thursday, February 7, 2013 8:50:09 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Craig Weinberg >> wrote: >> >> >> You're avoiding the ques

Re: Topical combination

On 07 Feb 2013, at 17:46, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/2/7 Bruno Marchal On 06 Feb 2013, at 18:07, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:37:22 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Feb 2013, at 19:01, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, February 5, 2013 12:51:10 PM UTC

Re: Topical combination

On 07 Feb 2013, at 19:43, meekerdb wrote: On 2/7/2013 8:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Beyond our view of matter, I would guess that both of them would agree that matter is a function of quantum functions, which to me is the same thing as an image of the mind made impersonal. But that is

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Friday, February 8, 2013 11:23:48 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 Telmo Menezes >wrote: > > >> I don't believe other people have minds when they are sleeping or >>> under anesthesia or dead because when they are in those states they don't >>> behave very intelligently.

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

2013/2/8 John Clark > On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > >> there is a single result in Bruno's experiment, John K Clark sees >>> Washington and Moscow. >>> >> >> But under MWI you agreed you see the photon hit the left or the right >> plate, not the left side and the right

Re: Lee Smolin and Darwin's Uncommon Success

On 07 Feb 2013, at 20:40, meekerdb wrote: On 2/7/2013 8:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Math is ambiguous on that. A priori, yes. But once we assume computationalism in cognitive science, then we can accept that when numbers, relatively to other numbers, behave in some ways (self-reference

Re: Topical combination

On Friday, February 8, 2013 12:02:57 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 07 Feb 2013, at 19:43, meekerdb wrote: > > > On 2/7/2013 8:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Beyond our view of matter, I would guess that both of them would > >>> agree that matter is a function of quan

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: >> You believe that other people have minds when they are sleeping or under >> anesthesia or dead!?? >> > > > Do you believe that you have a house when you aren't standing in it? > Yes. Do you believe that other people have minds when they are sleeping

Re: The Plant Teachers

On 08 Feb 2013, at 10:09, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 07:31:06PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote: Salvia, like Ketamine, (but quite less dangerous, and anti- addictive) has a dissociative effect which might illustrate the "Galois connection" between 1p-mind (consciousness) and i

Re: The Plant Teachers

On 08 Feb 2013, at 09:31, Kim Jones wrote: On 08/02/2013, at 9:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Feb 2013, at 10:57, Kim Jones wrote: Graham Hancock's experiences with Ayahuasca Of course some will immediately denounce this post as irrelevant to the search for a TOE. But, recall that

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Friday, February 8, 2013 1:49:54 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > >> You believe that other people have minds when they are sleeping or >>> under anesthesia or dead!?? >>> >> >> > Do you believe that you have a house when you aren't standing in i

Re: The Plant Teachers

On 2/8/2013 12:31 AM, Kim Jones wrote: Which is a profound problem that we can lay right at the door of LANGUAGE. Language is indeed a self-serving thing. A description of something is a dance of language, not a dance of PERCEPTION. Perception is often throttled by the processes of language. We

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On 2/8/2013 1:02 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/7/2013 3:52 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 7:04 PM, John Clark mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:00 P

Re: The Plant Teachers

Some initial comments, because I´m very interested on these alterations of conscience. The rest of my comments will appear along the conversation: I´m persuaded, by very simple evolutionary analysis that plants produced whatever chemical substance that stops from eating them. this is their only me

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On 2/8/2013 3:19 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Well, while going from Telmo to the cat, you're rigth that Telmo memories should be erased, the inverse is not true. Why couldn't you be back as Telmo + the memories of having been a cat ? Hi Quentin, Because that would require that I ha

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:57 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/8/2013 3:19 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Well, while going from Telmo to the cat, you're rigth that Telmo >> memories should be erased, the inverse is not true. Why couldn't you be >> back as Telmo + the memories of having been a cat ? >> >

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Friday, February 8, 2013 4:18:02 PM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:57 PM, meekerdb > > wrote: > >> On 2/8/2013 3:19 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> Well, while going from Telmo to the cat, you're rigth that Telmo >>> memories should be erased, the inverse is

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 P

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 3:34:36 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/6/2013 11:42 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 2:29:12 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 2/6/2013 5:09 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 5:13:03 AM UTC-5, Al

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 10:38 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2

Re: Topical combination

On 2/8/2013 8:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: If you talk about God to people not reading this list, they would never come to your meaning, as such your usage is a misuse and leads to confusion. No, you are wrong on this. All theologians I met have no problem at all Of course theologians consti

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On 2/8/2013 10:49 AM, John Clark wrote: I don't know what you mean by that, what I mean is that consciousness is a spandrel, it is the unavoidable result of intelligence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandrel_%28biology%29 Or it could be

Re: The Plant Teachers

This documentary is very good. it is about alterations of consciouness produced by accidents. This case has a injured temporal lobe. The effect is very similar to a psychotropic drug, religious feelings included: . http://www. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry8wwV50ylQ&list=PLyXtpSZUDSjzBluIm4CL5Db

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

On 2/8/2013 12:04 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:23 AM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/7/2013 3:15 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:53 PM, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 2/7/201

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On 2/8/2013 1:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:57 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/8/2013 3:19 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Well, while going from Telmo to the cat, you're rigth that Telmo memories should be erased, the inverse is

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

On 2/8/2013 2:14 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: My point is that the only possible write algorithm that doesn't read information that is already stored is one that starts writing at random in any position. You could erase or corrupt previous information and you have no index. I don't see why that

Re: The Plant Teachers

On Friday, February 8, 2013 3:38:06 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/8/2013 12:31 AM, Kim Jones wrote: > > Which is a profound problem that we can lay right at the door of LANGUAGE. > Language is indeed a self-serving thing. A description of something is a > dance of language, not a dance of P

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

Outside of consciousness, there is no possibility of discerning any difference between accidental byproducts and selected products. Only consciousness selects. Only consciousness has accidents. Craig On Friday, February 8, 2013 5:53:18 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/8/2013 10:49 AM, John Cla

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 10:38 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:45 P

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 10:38 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:45 P