Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-28 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Brent, Thank you for your answer. I have thought more and I believe that now I understand the paper better. I would agree that an ideal potential barrier, provided it is created intelligently, does not inject the energy in a micro- and a macrosystem. Well, if a potential barrier has some

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-27 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Brent, I have nothing against of fundamental science and I do not expect practical application for this paper. Yet, I do not see fundamental results. What is in the paper is just a change of vocabulary. I would say that we are free to choose a definition. Well, right now when free will is

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.03.2012 19:58 meekerdb said the following: On 3/14/2012 11:51 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try to convince in this engineers who develop engines, or chemists who compute equilibria, and see what happens. It is relative not just to the

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 15.03.2012 22:58 Russell Standish said the following: On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 07:25:01PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.03.2012 23:34 Russell Standish said the following: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:51:13PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 03:49:17PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Do you mean that the Laplace deamon would not agree with the Second Law? Evgenii Yes - there is no second law for the Laplace daemon. Each microstate is distinct and equiprobable. Cheers --

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread meekerdb
On 3/25/2012 6:44 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.03.2012 19:58 meekerdb said the following: On 3/14/2012 11:51 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try to convince in this engineers who develop engines, or chemists who compute equilibria, and see what

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-15 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.03.2012 23:34 Russell Standish said the following: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:51:13PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try to convince in this engineers who develop engines, or chemists who compute equilibria, and see what happens. I take

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-15 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 07:25:01PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.03.2012 23:34 Russell Standish said the following: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:51:13PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try to convince in this engineers who develop engines, or

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Mar 2012, at 18:20, meekerdb wrote: On 3/13/2012 6:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Mar 2012, at 01:43, Russell Standish wrote: http://www.nature.com/news/the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed-1.10186 This about experimentally testing Landauer's principle that computation

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-14 Thread meekerdb
On 3/14/2012 11:51 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.03.2012 20:59 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 12:44 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.03.2012 20:32 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 12:26 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... In my collection I have this quote for example

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-14 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:51:13PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try to convince in this engineers who develop engines, or chemists who compute equilibria, and see what happens. I take Denbigh Denbigh's position that entropy is not subjective,

For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Russell Standish
http://www.nature.com/news/the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed-1.10186 This about experimentally testing Landauer's principle that computation has thermodynamic constraints. -- Prof Russell Standish

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Mar 2012, at 01:43, Russell Standish wrote: http://www.nature.com/news/the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed-1.10186 This about experimentally testing Landauer's principle that computation has thermodynamic constraints. I was worrying a bit with that title, thinking Landauer's

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: It looks like computation would need energy, but the energy is needed only for erasing information, and since a paper by Hao Wang (universal, and thus all) computations can be done without ever erasing information. Yes, with a

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Russell, Thanks for the link. Yet, it is unclear to me what is exactly information and computation in this experiment. To be more precise, let us take physicalism: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/physicalism/ This is probably in what I believe right now, although as I have described

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread meekerdb
On 3/12/2012 5:43 PM, Russell Standish wrote: http://www.nature.com/news/the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed-1.10186 This about experimentally testing Landauer's principle that computation has thermodynamic constraints. This energy consumption is getting ever lower, and Lutz says

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread meekerdb
On 3/13/2012 6:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Mar 2012, at 01:43, Russell Standish wrote: http://www.nature.com/news/the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed-1.10186 This about experimentally testing Landauer's principle that computation has thermodynamic constraints. I was

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 13.03.2012 18:20 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 6:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Mar 2012, at 01:43, Russell Standish wrote: http://www.nature.com/news/the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed-1.10186 This about experimentally testing Landauer's principle that

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread meekerdb
On 3/13/2012 10:28 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.03.2012 18:20 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 6:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Mar 2012, at 01:43, Russell Standish wrote: http://www.nature.com/news/the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed-1.10186 This about

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread meekerdb
On 3/13/2012 12:26 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.03.2012 20:09 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 10:28 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Could you please give one example from physics (yet please not a thought experiment) where information allows us to reduce entropy?

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/13/2012 9:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Mar 2012, at 01:43, Russell Standish wrote: http://www.nature.com/news/the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed-1.10186 This about experimentally testing Landauer's principle that computation has thermodynamic constraints. I was

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 13.03.2012 20:32 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 12:26 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.03.2012 20:09 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 10:28 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Could you please give one example from physics (yet please not a thought experiment) where

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread meekerdb
On 3/13/2012 12:44 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.03.2012 20:32 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 12:26 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.03.2012 20:09 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 10:28 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Could you please give one example from physics (yet