Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 26 August 2015 at 17:21, Peter Sas wrote: > Hi guys and girls, > > I'm sure this question has already come up many times before, but it's an > important one, so I guess it can't do any harm to go over it again. > > If the universe is thoroughly computational, what are the computations > 'runni

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

I thought Tipler's theory is that there will be an actual physical computer that will be able to do all possible computations as the Universe collapses - although since he came up with the idea it has been shown that the Universe won't collapse in the required way. Yes, it's not Tipler's main t

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Peter Sas wrote: > I thought Tipler's theory is that there will be an actual physical > computer that will be able to do all possible computations as the Universe > collapses - although since he came up with the idea it has been shown that > the Universe won't col

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

Personally my brain stack overflows at about 3 or 4 levels of being aware that I am aware that ... I am aware. I think it would require infinite memory to truly be aware of an infinite number of steps in such a recursive relation. Maybe the infinite hierarchy doesn't have to be thought/remember

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

Hi Peter, I have not much time, but why to assume a (primary) physical universe. There are no evdience for that. Also if my body is a machine", the universe cannot be a machine, unless I am the universe (which I doubt). "Computation" is a pre -mathematical concept, and actually, an arithm

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 26 Aug 2015, at 12:06, Peter Sas wrote: Personally my brain stack overflows at about 3 or 4 levels of being aware that I am aware that ... I am aware. I think it would require infinite memory to truly be aware of an infinite number of steps in such a recursive relation. Maybe the infi

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

Hi Bruno, I am not assuming a primary physical universe... precisely not. The idea is that self-awareness is ontologically primary and that this self-awareness, through its recursive structure, is awareness of all natural numbers (and possibly beyond) and thus it computes. We could then say it

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 26 Aug 2015, at 12:47, Peter Sas wrote: Hi Bruno, I am not assuming a primary physical universe... precisely not. The idea is that self-awareness is ontologically primary and that this self-awareness, through its recursive structure, is awareness of all natural numbers (and possibly b

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

Shooting for a physical location? Now we head of (my choice) into Conjecture-Land. Two possibilities, submitted for your scorn and disapproval. One is that since the universe is said by astronomers to be somewhere in the zone of 26-80 light-years, in extant, and we can only detect what is withi

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 8/26/2015 3:06 AM, Peter Sas wrote: Personally my brain stack overflows at about 3 or 4 levels of being aware that I am aware that ... I am aware. I think it would require infinite memory to truly be aware of an infinite number of steps in such a recursive relation. Maybe the infinite hiera

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

The answer is (1), except that that it's not the algorithm for generating the laws of physics rather simply you, me, Bruno or whatever other conscious entity at some particular state where they have some conscious experience. Each different conscious experience is defined by the action of some

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 26 Aug 2015, at 22:22, meekerdb wrote: On 8/26/2015 3:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Aug 2015, at 12:06, Peter Sas wrote: Personally my brain stack overflows at about 3 or 4 levels of being aware that I am aware that ... I am aware. I think it would require infinite memory to truly

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 27 Aug 2015, at 00:25, smitra wrote: The answer is (1), except that that it's not the algorithm for generating the laws of physics rather simply you, me, Bruno or whatever other conscious entity at some particular state where they have some conscious experience. Each different conscious

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I don't know why people want hardware for computation, ​I know, it's because in the history of the world​ ​NOBODY has ever been able to perform one single calculation without using hardware. No hardware = no calculation. > ​> ​ > Once you

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 27 Aug 2015, at 21:14, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I don't know why people want hardware for computation, ​I know, it's because in the history of the world​ ​NOBODY has ever been able to perform one single calculation without using hardw

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On Thursday, August 27, 2015, meekerdb wrote: > > > > Forwarded Message ---- Subject: Re: If the universe is > computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options? Date: > Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:32:37 +1000 From: Stathis Papaioannou > > Rep

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

I'm not assuming QM, the goal is to derive it, perhaps only as an approximation. It would be better if QM only turns out to be approximately true, because then one can attempt to predict what experimental signatures there are. Saibal On 27-08-2015 18:47, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Aug 2015

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​ ​>> ​ >> in the history of the world >> ​ ​ >> *NOBODY* has ever been able to perform one single calculation without >> using hardware. No hardware = no calculation. > > ​> ​ > Consult Turing or Church, ​Consult Fortune ​magazine for a l

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

r supporting Digital Physics! https://youtu.be/Q216LjDzeJw On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 10:01:27 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Thursday, August 27, 2015, meekerdb > > wrote: > >> >> >> >> ---- Forwarded Message Subject: Re: If the

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 28 Aug 2015, at 19:43, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:​ ​>> ​in the history of the world​ ​NOBODY has ever been able to perform one single calculation without using hardware. No hardware = no calculation. ​> ​Consult Turing or Church, ​Consu

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

t 10:01:27 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Thursday, August 27, 2015, meekerdb wrote: -------- Forwarded Message ---- Subject: Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:32:37 +1000 From: Stathis Papaioannou Rep

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > ​> ​ > The dogma did not come from Plato, nor even Aristotle, > ​All the ancient greeks in your own words "​ believe in what they understand, not necessarily in what they observe ​" and that was the problem.​ Aristotle ​ believed that heav

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 8/30/2015 10:35 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: ​ > ​ The dogma did not come from Plato, nor even Aristotle, ​All the ancient greeks in your own words "​ believe in what they understand, not necessarily in wh

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

I don`t know the computation, but for sure that will you have the option of running it on Linux or Windows 2015-08-26 9:21 GMT+02:00 Peter Sas : > Hi guys and girls, > > I'm sure this question has already come up many times before, but it's an > important one, so I guess it can't do any harm to g

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 30 Aug 2015, at 19:35, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​The dogma did not come from Plato, nor even Aristotle, ​All the ancient greeks in your own words "​believe in what they understand, not necessarily in what they observe​" and that was

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 28 Aug 2015, at 16:01, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thursday, August 27, 2015, meekerdb wrote: Forwarded Message Subject: Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:32:37 +1000 From

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:14 PM, meekerdb wrote: ​ > > >> ​>> >> Aristotle >> ​ believed that heavy objects fell more quickly than light ones, >> something that could have been easily disproved even on his own day but he >> understood it so well, or thought he did, that he didn't bother to make a

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On 8/31/2015 3:19 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:14 PM, meekerdb > wrote: ​ ​ >> Aristotle ​ believed that heavy objects fell more quickly than light ones, something that could have been easily disproved even on his own day but

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

What most astonishes me of this modern world is how plain stupid nonsense can become common sense by repetition if that serve the purpose to denigrate the past. ​>> Aristotle ​ believed that heavy objects fell more quickly than light ones, *something that could have been easily disproved* *even o

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

​>> Aristotle ​ believed that heavy objects fell more quickly than light ones, *something that could have been easily disproved* *even on his own day *but he understood it so well, or thought he did, that he didn't bother to make any observations on the matter. How Aristotle could have disproved

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:14 PM, meekerdb wrote: ​>>​ >> Pure logic can't prove that a physical theory is correct but it can prove >> that it's wrong i >> f​ >> it's self contradictory and Aristotle's theory was. >> ​ ​ >> If you take a heavy rock and tie it to a slightly lighter rock with some

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 Alberto G. Corona wrote: ​> >> ​> ​ >> How Aristotle could have disproved that, you fool? > > ​If Aristotle, the so called master of logic, didn't want to use logic to disprove it he could have disproved it the same way Galileo ​ did, with experiments using a inclined plane.

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

if you were capable of thinking a little bit you would know that Galileo did not demonstrated that. It is is one of many myths of science. There is no way to demonstrate it in the earth except in a large vacuum tube and with high precision photography Galileo demonstrated that bodies accelerate

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 Alberto G. Corona wrote: ​> ​ > if you were capable of thinking a little bit you would know that Galileo > did not demonstrated that. It is is one of many myths of science. There is > no way to demonstrate it in the earth except in a large vacuum tube and > with high precis

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

Hi Mike, That film looks like a lot of fun... How can I see it? Can I order a copy online? Here by the way is my latest blog post on the platform problem in digital physics and the relation to consciousness: http://critique-of-pure-interest.blogspot.nl/2015/09/is-universe-self-computing-consci

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

s To: Everything List Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2015 8:02 am Subject: Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options? Hi Mike, That film looks like a lot of fun... How can I see it? Can I order a copy online? Here by the way is my latest blog post o

Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

He is also a big fan of Josiah Royce. > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDB35y-5Z0 > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTcQp1bTKHA > > > -Original Message- > From: Peter Sas > > To: Everything List > > Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2015 8:02 am > Su

Fwd: Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options?

Forwarded Message Subject: Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing platform? What are the options? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:32:37 +1000 From: Stathis Papaioannou Reply-To: everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list