Hi Vivek,
this could well be a known bug - can you use 5.1 - or 5.2 (due out soon)
thanks,
Rob
On 11 Sep 2008, at 16:31, krv wrote:
Hi,
Sorry for posting this again, about
the inequity and the tactics, and we joined them
in fighting them. I was on those picket lines, and
I'm here to tell you that there was nary a whiner
in the bunch. We didn't face the dogs and the cops
while whining that things weren't FAIR. *Of course*
things weren't fair...that's why we were there. Duh.
But we *were* there, and we refused to be deterred,
and we refused to whine, and things changed.
In the feminist movement, I have also watched and
participated to do whatever I can to right wrongs
and remove the "glass ceilings" that men (and other
women...it's good to remember that 60-70% of anti-
abortion activists are women) have used to keep
women down. And I've seen what works and what
doesn't.
Pretending that there is some way that things "should"
be and whining when it isn't doesn't work. Looking
at things right here and now, as they are, honestly,
and then working to change them works.
> And I think it very likely that those ultra successful women
> who never whine or talk about inequality are wired differently
> than your average woman - maybe more like a man...
Hold on a minute...that's simply not true. They just
wanted to achieve something, and DID. They faced MORE
obstacles than any man would have, and they DID IT
ANYWAY. I don't see this as a gender issue or a "wired"
issue, but simply a "What you focus on you become"
energy issue.
> ...especially since success itself changes the brain and
> hormones and results in feelings of power, entitlement, and
> dominance in most people.
Not one of the women I had in mind when I wrote my
first post on this subject was successful when they
started working towards success. Not one of them was
born with money or privilege or in some cases, not
even education. *Certainly* not entitlement. They
just worked for what they wanted. One of them got
a wild hair up her ass at age 30 (*far* too old for
someone to take up a sport and get great at it) to
learn fencing, and wound up winning an Olympic gold
medal several years later. That's not about a sense
of "entitlement," that's about DOING THE WORK.
> Studies in one of the apes show just that when a shift in
> status within the group occurs.
And I do not dispute that. But I'm talking about how these
women handled themselves ON THE WAY to success in their
various endeavors, not how they handled themselves after
having achieved it. Without exception, they DID THE
WORK and they didn't whine about the obstacles.
Is that being "more like a man?" I don't think so.
I think that's being Here And Now, and dealing with
the reality of WHAT IS, not some notion of what
"should" be.
> In addition, most of us, male or female but especially male,
> justify our success, once achieved. We think it was "something
> anyone could do if they just ______________(fill in the blank)
> as I did."
I knew the women I'm talking about BEFORE they achieved
what they achieved. The now CEO of a multimillion dollar
computer company was a victim of childhood sexual abuse
and ran away from home, never even finishing high school.
> I too know a few incredibly successful women, and all have
> thought the entire feminist thing a waste of their time
> since they "made it" without that support.
Two issues here. First, the idea that *dwelling*
on feminism is a "waste of their time" I would
agree with wholeheartedly, and so would the women
I am speaking about whom I know. They are all very
*pragmatic* women, and careful about where they
spend their time and their energy. Actions achieve
results; whining doesn't. Simple as that.
Second, the issue of making it "with support."
While "support" might be nice along the way, it has
NEVER been the factor that enabled or prevented a
person's success. In fact, most of the successful
women and men on this planet achieved what they
did *without* a great deal of support.
They just got all Nike on the challenge. They put
on their JUST DO IT mindset and just did it.
> But that does not mean most women have not benefitted.
> It sounds as if Rama was right, at a certain point
> you need to get past it, but come on - real change,
> not only of rules but of how people really feel, takes
> a few generations.
Absolutely.
> So I think women are entitled to whine sometimes cause
> things are not fair...
Entitled, yes. But is it *productive* to whine?
"What you focus on you become." That is a "standard"
in almost every spiritual trip on the planet, and
I think it's as close to Truth as it gets.
I am a very pragmatic person. Whining wastes energy.
If you want to succeed, don't waste energy. End of
story.
<snip>
> I think your usual stance re Judy is causing you to take
> this position.
Who?
:-)
You're wrong. Really. But I understand how you could
believe that. This is a subject I have felt deeply
about long before anyone on this forum ever crossed
my path.
It's not even *about* male vs. female for me. It's
far more pragmatic than that, and is about energy.
Where do you put yours -- in whining about what is
keeping you from achieving your goals, or in achieving
them? The answer to that question determines what you
achieve in life, not the question of whether you are
male or female.
