David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 7 Oct 2006 at 13:40, Richard Smith wrote:
Some really good music by some respected composers is being written
for wind ensemble and many composition students are being advised that
the best way to hear one's music performed is to write for band,
John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, I just looked it up in A Practical Guide to
Percussion Terminology by Russ Girsberger, and
it's just as complicated as I thought it would be.
Glöckchen: tubular bells; chimes
Glocke: bell
Glocken: chimes
Glockenartig: like a bell; bell-like
At 12:13 PM +0100 10/9/06, Ken Moore wrote:
If you just want to write music and hear it played, without worrying
about making a living from it, you get to know lots of good
amateurs, and this category is rather better stocked with wind and
brass than with strings, in my experience.
Ken
On Oct 9, 2006, at 12:25 PM, Ken Moore wrote:
Also a keyed glockenspiel is jeu de timbres as required for
Turangalila.
Actually, no. Jeu de timbres means literally set of chimes and is
the standard French term for the regular glockenspiel. Messiaen
designates the keyboard glockenspiel as
On Oct 9, 2006, at 1:38 PM, John Howell wrote:
Ken makes a rather nice point in that sentence, and one that truly
shows how fuzzy the absolutist definitions can become. In particular,
the use of strings in ensembles which are clearly bands, are called
bands, and play literature intended
Chuck Israels wrote:
Interesting that celeste is not listed, yet that's what I always hear
in Magic Flute performances and recordings. Seems OK to my ears.
Chuck
No, it's not a celeste, which has softer bars, a damper, and a prominent
resonator-generated _Nachklang_. The keyboard
This table is problematic in that it doesn't distinguish between an
instrument with the bars laid-out like a keyboard and an instrument
actually played via a keyboard. The modern orchestral
bells/glockenspiel/(and their band world near-equivalent, the bell
lyra) is laid-out like a keyboard
David W. Fenton wrote:
On 7 Oct 2006 at 13:40, Richard Smith wrote:
Some really good music by some respected composers is being written
for wind ensemble and many composition students are being advised that
the best way to hear one's music performed is to write for band, not
orchestra.
Are
David W. Fenton wrote:
On 7 Oct 2006 at 15:48, Richard Smith wrote:
[quoting me, unattributed, again:]
But for samples, wouldn't you want a completely different sound?
WHile they can play the same repertory, they amount of section
doubling is drastically different between the two ensembles.
Or
The saxophone may not be a regular member of the orchestra, but in 20th-century (and beyond) repertoire, it is a frequent guest, more so then certain other instruments such as alto clarinet, or bass flute for instance. I know of well over 2000 pieces of orchestral music which uses saxophone(s) as
For the difference betw. keyboard glockenspiel and celesta, see my
book. Both instruments are required in Messiaen's _Turangalila
Symphonie_.
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
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At 10:36 AM +0200 10/8/06, Daniel Wolf wrote:
Chuck Israels wrote:
Interesting that celeste is not listed, yet
that's what I always hear in Magic Flute
performances and recordings. Seems OK to my
ears.
Chuck
No, it's not a celeste, which has softer bars, a
damper, and a prominent
You may be correct, but I certainly read the
definitions as meaning glockenspiel with a
keyboard. I think the modern tendency to refer
to mallet instruments as keyboards simply
clouds the issue, whether it is organologically
correct or not.
John
At 10:43 AM +0200 10/8/06, Daniel Wolf
John Howell wrote:
So which is considered preferable for Tchaikovsky, or do both versions
of the instrument actually still exist?
JOHN
Tchaikovsky requires a celeste.
DJW
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Finale@shsu.edu
At 7:46 AM -0400 10/8/06, dhbailey wrote:
One sequencer capability which would be nice in Finale for just such
occasions would be the ability to have one staff, one sound,
duplicated to different tracks with each one time-shifted a few
milliseconds and the multiple tracks detuned randomly
Re: Celeste or Glock (the latter of ANY
type)
Tchaikovsky - in the two works of his oeuvre
which call for such an instrument (Nutcracker and Voyevoda- the op. 78 ballad
and not the op. 3 overture) calls specifically for a celeste, not glock,
keyboard or lyre. Celeste has a much softer and
On 7 Oct 2006 at 18:38, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 07 Oct 2006, at 6:32 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
You're right, of course. Doubling the same instrument is just a
waste of resources. Egg on my face!
Not at all. As I mentioned, in Garritan instruments, doubling the
player variations
On 08 Oct 2006, at 7:46 AM, dhbailey wrote:
One sequencer capability which would be nice in Finale for just
such occasions would be the ability to have one staff, one sound,
duplicated to different tracks with each one time-shifted a few
milliseconds and the multiple tracks detuned
On 07 Oct 2006, at 8:35 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Not at all. As I mentioned, in Garritan instruments, doubling the
player variations (i.e. Flute Player 1 and Flute Player 2) gives
authentic unisons and is not a waste of resources at all. David
doesn't use Garritan instruments so the comments
On 8 Oct 2006 at 16:16, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 08 Oct 2006, at 7:46 AM, dhbailey wrote:
One sequencer capability which would be nice in Finale for just
such occasions would be the ability to have one staff, one sound,
duplicated to different tracks with each one time-shifted a few
On 08 Oct 2006, at 5:09 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Again, this is something that is very easily done with the VAR1 and
VAR2 commands in the Kontakt Player.
Could you explicate that a bit, please?
VAR1 and VAR2 are controllers in the Kontakt Player that allow
you to control the amount of
] Garritan [was: Finale/Sibelius as
sequencer/sampler?]
On 08 Oct 2006, at 5:09 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Again, this is something that is very easily done with the VAR1 and
VAR2 commands in the Kontakt Player.
Could you explicate that a bit, please?
VAR1 and VAR2 are controllers in the Kontakt
Richard,
Just to clarify the terminology: there is no such thing as the full
Kontakt player. There's Kontakt Player and then there's Kontakt.
Kontakt Player is included in Finale (as well as the Garritan
Instrument Libraries), and supports VAR1, VAR2 etc.
Kontakt is a full-blown sampler,
08, 2006 5:35 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Garritan [was: Finale/Sibelius as
sequencer/sampler?]
Richard,
Just to clarify the terminology: there is no such thing as the full
Kontakt player. There's Kontakt Player and then there's Kontakt.
Kontakt Player is included in Finale
On 8 Oct 2006 at 17:18, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 08 Oct 2006, at 5:09 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Again, this is something that is very easily done with the VAR1
and VAR2 commands in the Kontakt Player.
Could you explicate that a bit, please?
VAR1 and VAR2 are controllers in the
On 08 Oct 2006, at 7:20 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
OK. I don't understand what all that means.
Is Finale producing the output here?
Finale is triggering the Kontakt Player, which loads as an audio
plugin inside Finale. The Kontakt Player in turn hosts the Garritan
instruments and offers
Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Yes, and I'm sure every orchestra maintains lists for first call
Accordian players, and other instruments NOT regularly in the Orchestra.
You reinforced my point. Saxophone is not a regular part of an
Orchestra. Wind Ensemble/Orchestra, yes, but a traditional Orchestra,
Chuck Israels wrote:
On Oct 6, 2006, at 1:11 PM, dhbailey wrote:
Steve Schow wrote:
Regardless of when or how the sax has been used in orchestras, i believe
your are mischaracterizing Gary Garritan as he were someone that
deliberately left out a particular instrument to try to get more money
Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Then go edit Wikipedia. However, I doubt they will take your edit. You
just said standard additional instrument. It's not a standard
instrument, but an additional instrument. Get it? Ok, really slow
now.Standard...ADDITIONALinstrument.
And say just as
On 07 Oct 2006, at 4:27 AM, dhbailey wrote:
Do you mean to tell me that every instrument included in GPO is a
regular member of a standard orchestra? I don't think so.
I'm not sure how that's relevant. You're saying you want GPO to
include fewer instruments?
Most orchestras do no have a
A Glockenspiel was used in Mozart's Die Zauberflote. But I'm sure Mozart
was looking forward and knew it would be just a BAND instrument. Last
time I saw the San Francisco Symphony they had a Harp but no saxophones.
Funny...according to you they use them..not! One of the ladies I
play
Garritan Wind Ensemble is an upcoming project.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://secretsociety.typepad.com
Brooklyn, NY
On 07 Oct 2006, at 11:01 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Saxophone is a band instrument. Or a Wind ensemble instrument. It's
not a part of a traditional Orchestra, and I
On Oct 7, 2006, at 11:10 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Garritan Wind Ensemble is an upcoming project.
Wow! Really? I suppose you have an inside line on this?
Christopher
(It shouldn't be TOO good, or it will lose the realism. Squeaky
clarinets, honky oboes (or else an out of tune muted
On 07 Oct 2006, at 11:24 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Oct 7, 2006, at 11:10 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Garritan Wind Ensemble is an upcoming project.
Wow! Really? I suppose you have an inside line on this?
If by inside line you mean http://www.garritan.com:
Announcing: Garritan
Very cool. I'll have to start saving up for this ;-)
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Garritan Wind Ensemble is an upcoming project.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://secretsociety.typepad.com
Brooklyn, NY
On 07 Oct 2006, at 11:01 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Saxophone is a band instrument. Or a
So is choirs, solo voices and mandolins, at least it's what Gary told me.
John.
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 11:10:54 -0400 Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Garritan Wind Ensemble is an upcoming project.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://secretsociety.typepad.com
Brooklyn, NY
Alright! Since most of my instrumental writing is for Wind
Ensemble, this would be great... yeah, I wonder what it will cost.
Dean
On Oct 7, 2006, at 9:27 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Very cool. I'll have to start saving up for this ;-)
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Garritan Wind Ensemble is an
We've all heard that band but then we have heard an orchestra sound like
that too. I challenge you to find that sound from the Dallas Wind
Symphony, the Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra, or any of the really fine
university ensembles.
Some really good music by some respected composers is being
On Oct 7, 2006, at 2:40 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
We've all heard that band but then we have heard an orchestra sound
like that too. I challenge you to find that sound from the Dallas
Wind Symphony, the Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra, or any of the really
fine university ensembles.
Some
At 7:53 PM -0700 10/6/06, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Then go edit Wikipedia. However, I doubt they will take your edit.
You just said standard additional instrument. It's not a standard
instrument, but an additional instrument. Get it? Ok, really slow
On 7 Oct 2006 at 4:27, dhbailey wrote:
The saxes may
be missing because they weren't ready in time, they may be missing
because Gary simply felt like it wasn't important to include them (why
include glockenspiel, though? That's a band instrument if ever I've
seen one)
Well, perhaps
On 7 Oct 2006 at 13:40, Richard Smith wrote:
Some really good music by some respected composers is being written
for wind ensemble and many composition students are being advised that
the best way to hear one's music performed is to write for band, not
orchestra.
Are we talking about bands
The distinctions are not always clear. The wind ensemble's connection to
the band should not be obscured but the the connection to older wind
music is also important.
Richard Smith
www.rgsmithmusic.com
Are we talking about bands or wind ensemble?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought there
On 7 Oct 2006 at 15:20, Richard Smith wrote:
[quoting me:]
Are we talking about bands or wind ensemble?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought there was a difference.
The distinctions are not always clear. The wind ensemble's
connection to the band should not be obscured but the the
That's a good point. I suppose I think to much in live terms. Of course
doubling could be accomplished by hidden, duplicate staves.
I think all I would want that's not in GPO is a good set of concert (not
pop) saxophones, cornets and/or flugel horns, and euphonia that sound
like euphonia
On 7 Oct 2006 at 15:48, Richard Smith wrote:
[quoting me, unattributed, again:]
But for samples, wouldn't you want a completely different sound?
WHile they can play the same repertory, they amount of section
doubling is drastically different between the two ensembles.
Or so I've always
Eric Dannewitz wrote:
A Glockenspiel was used in Mozart's Die Zauberflote.
At risk of being picayune, the Glockenspiel used in Zauberflöte is a
keyboard instrument somewhat different in sound from the modern,
played-with-mallets, orchestral and band glockenspiel.
DJW
You're right, of course. Doubling the same instrument is just a waste of
resources. Egg on my face!
I think, for my purposes, I would prefer a wind ensemble to a larger
concert band set up because of the greater clarity (much like the real
world).
Richard Smith
www.rgsmithmusic.com
On 07 Oct 2006, at 6:32 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
You're right, of course. Doubling the same instrument is just a
waste of resources. Egg on my face!
Not at all. As I mentioned, in Garritan instruments, doubling the
player variations (i.e. Flute Player 1 and Flute Player 2) gives
I seem to be having trouble with language. When I said instruments, I
meant samples, not different samples of the same instrument. Sorry for
being unclear.
Richard Smith
www.rgsmithmusic.com
Not at all. As I mentioned, in Garritan instruments, doubling the
player variations (i.e. Flute
True, Richard Strauss used it in Don Juan.
John.
On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:17:19 +0200 Daniel Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Eric Dannewitz wrote:
A Glockenspiel was used in Mozart's Die Zauberflote.
At risk of being picayune, the Glockenspiel used in Zauberflöte is a
keyboard instrument
Was it a celesta?
Dean
At risk of being picayune, the Glockenspiel used in Zauberflöte is a
keyboard instrument somewhat different in sound from the modern,
played-with-mallets, orchestral and band glockenspiel.
DJW
Dean M. Estabrook
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Have you ever heard of an eleven or
At 4:04 PM -0400 10/7/06, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 7 Oct 2006 at 13:40, Richard Smith wrote:
Some really good music by some respected composers is being written
for wind ensemble and many composition students are being advised that
the best way to hear one's music performed is to write for
I think it was--or at least the late 18th century equivalent.
I also suspect that the German Glockenspiel can
actually refer to different instruments in
translation. It's possible that celesta is one
of them, as well as the mallet-played orchestra
bells. What I grew up calling a
Interesting that celeste is not listed, yet that's what I always hear
in Magic Flute performances and recordings. Seems OK to my ears.
Chuck
On Oct 7, 2006, at 4:42 PM, John Howell wrote:
I think it was--or at least the late 18th century equivalent.
I also suspect that the German
This dialog serves to remind me of an experience I had in my first
year of teaching ... ca. 1966. Our high school had a very fine
advanced band called a Wind Ensemble, which, in fact, had a minimum
number of players per part, in general. Then there was a less
advanced Concert Band, with
On the contrary, three of the terms mean a
keyboard instrument as the single or one possible
meaning.
John
At 5:58 PM -0700 10/7/06, Chuck Israels wrote:
Interesting that celeste is not listed, yet
that's what I always hear in Magic Flute
performances and recordings. Seems OK to my
ears.
I don't believe saxophone is included in an orchestra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestra
I don't believe that the London Symphony Orchestra has saxophones in it.
Ken Moore wrote:
dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Garritan also made money by not including some very important
instruments
It is, if you're playing Ravel, among other composers...
On Oct 6, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
I don't believe saxophone is included in an orchestra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestra
I don't believe that the London Symphony Orchestra has saxophones in
it.
Martin Banner
Regardless of when or how the sax has been used in orchestras, i believe
your are mischaracterizing Gary Garritan as he were someone that
deliberately left out a particular instrument to try to get more money
from you later. Many people know that Gary Garritan is one of the
nicest people in the
Just a quick response to the complaint about instrumentation in
sample libraries.
Whoever makes them and markets them has to decide what to include and
what to leave out, just as MM must make similar decisions about their
products. It seems foolish to criticize the exclusion of one or two
On Oct 6, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
I don't believe saxophone is included in an orchestra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestra
I don't believe that the London Symphony Orchestra has saxophones
in it.
Hey, the LSO doesn't even list a bass trombonist, so I don't know how
On Oct 6, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Steve Schow wrote:
Regardless of when or how the sax has been used in orchestras, i
believe
your are mischaracterizing Gary Garritan as he were someone that
deliberately left out a particular instrument to try to get more money
from you later. Many people know
Except when they're programming works which call for saxophone, and then
you can be there's saxophones in the London Symphony Orchestra. Every
orchestra maintains lists of first-call players for instruments which
they choose not to maintain a regular seat for.
David H. Bailey
Eric
Steve Schow wrote:
Regardless of when or how the sax has been used in orchestras, i believe
your are mischaracterizing Gary Garritan as he were someone that
deliberately left out a particular instrument to try to get more money
from you later. Many people know that Gary Garritan is one of the
Yes, and I'm sure every orchestra maintains lists for first call
Accordian players, and other instruments NOT regularly in the Orchestra.
You reinforced my point. Saxophone is not a regular part of an
Orchestra. Wind Ensemble/Orchestra, yes, but a traditional Orchestra, no.
dhbailey wrote:
Steve Schow wrote:
Regardless of when or how the sax has been used in orchestras, i believe
your are mischaracterizing Gary Garritan as he were someone that
deliberately left out a particular instrument to try to get more money
from you later. Many people know that Gary Garritan is one
On Oct 6, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
I don't believe saxophone is included in an orchestra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestra
I don't believe that the London Symphony Orchestra has saxophones in
it.
It does when it needs to.
The Wikipedia article clearly needs tweaking
On Oct 6, 2006, at 1:11 PM, dhbailey wrote:
Steve Schow wrote:
Regardless of when or how the sax has been used in orchestras, i
believe
your are mischaracterizing Gary Garritan as he were someone that
deliberately left out a particular instrument to try to get more
money
from you later.
At 12:11 PM -0700 10/6/06, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
I don't believe saxophone is included in an orchestra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestra
You missed the asterisk! But in this case, Wikipedia fails to be all
things to all people, although it certainly tries hard. Saxophone is
a
On 6 Oct 2006 at 22:31, John Howell wrote:
At 12:11 PM -0700 10/6/06, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
I don't believe saxophone is included in an orchestra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestra
You missed the asterisk! But in this case, Wikipedia fails to be all
things to all people, although it
Then go edit Wikipedia. However, I doubt they will take your edit. You
just said standard additional instrument. It's not a standard
instrument, but an additional instrument. Get it? Ok, really slow
now.Standard...ADDITIONALinstrument.
So, yeah, they will ADD a saxophonist or
Whether or you consider the sax a part of the orchestra or not, I have
yet to hear a sampled sax sound that couldn't totally destroy all of the
other instruments. In my concert band scores, usually replace the sax
sounds with clarinet so I can preserve some balance. I would love a
sampled
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