Re: [Fis] Fw: [Feedforward II and Anticipation] Joseph Brenner

2014-02-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
Dear Loet, On 17 Feb 2014, at 21:32, Loet Leydesdorff wrote: Dear Joseph, The "energetic" terms are external referents to the communication (scholarly discourse). These external referents can differently be codified; for example, in terms of thermodynamics or various forms of physics (e

Re: [Fis] Fw: Fw: [Feedforward II and Anticipation] Joseph Brenner

2014-02-18 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Joseph, Loet -- I like to distinguish The (supposed ontological) World, which I refer to as 'actuality', from 'reality', our logical/scientific model of actuality. As I see it, Loet would be concerned with a version of reality, but ignores the possibility of actuality, while Joseph ignores the di

Re: [Fis] [Feedforward II and Anticipation] Joseph Brenner

2014-02-18 Thread Loet Leydesdorff
Dear John and Joseph, Let me use my second option this week to side with you against those who wish to replace substantive theorizing with modelling. The issue is, in my opinion, *which* hypotheses one needs and can elaborate when developing discursive knowledge (e.g., in physics or sociology). T

Re: [Fis] [Feedforward II and Anticipation] Joseph Brenner

2014-02-18 Thread John Collier
I would concur completely with what Joseph says here. I have never understood the tendency to replace the world with models of it when we can interact directly with the world in a brute, unmediated way: it can really surprise us sometimes, no matter how sophisticated our models. Those familiar wi

[Fis] Fw: Fw: [Feedforward II and Anticipation] Joseph Brenner

2014-02-18 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Loet and Colleagues, In this most interesting comment by Loet, there is a fascinating inversion of roles! Laplace told Louis XV that "I don't need the hypothesis of God", something, let us say, rather abstract compared to the solar system. Loet is telling us, however, that what he does not