This message is from: Gail Russell <g...@zeliga.com>
I was ommenting on another post, but I see that I goofed and took out the identifying information of the poster. I suppose that the real problem is that people go to clicker training out of a distate for the roughness of some conventional training, but without some of the requirements needed to extinguish pushy behavior via clicker training.. Like a really good understanding of timing, and the resolve to practice, practice, practice the basics And not to put the horse in a tempting situation until the "alternate incompatible behavior"s are very well installed.. I have a pushy horse that I have had problems clicker training as he has learned to grass dive. He can be handled in a very soft, light way as long as he does not see something else he wants to do more. I have not been consistent enough in my training to get him to the point that he has knee jerk reactions/habits to respond to my cue. I believe that, at some point, horses are helpless to "disobey" because they are just so well trained that they do not even think of doing anything different when cued for a given behavior. ! Getting a horse that has been allowed to get pushy beyond that is not easy. CeCe Henderson had a Fjord stallion who was a serious problem with bolting and pulling away. Alexandra Kurland helped CeCe with him, and CeCe brought the stallion to the Libby show in the late 90's where she did a clicker demonstration. The horse was very good. But CeCe had had expert help. I went to a CHris Ellison clinic last weekend. He has worked with Tom Dorrance and Ray Hunt (probably when he was three years old...he doesn't look that old) . He is a conventional trainer, but I saw something very interesting. There was a big Hackney horse that was standing on top of his owner, throwing his shoulder into his owner on circles and was fearful of approaching other horses. The owner was doing the conventional rope throwing and swinging, and the horse was clearly annoyed/fearful. There was a real possibility that he might eventually decide to kick or strike. All Chris did was gently and persistently move the horse out of his space with the back of his hand, and teach the owner the correct mechanics for "leading" a horse out on a circle, and sending him off without overdoing the cue. By the end of the day, the horse was much softer and looked much happier. The real issue was not to get tough on this gelding, but to use correct mechanics. Part of the reas! on I like clicker training is that, even if you are horrible at the physical mechanics, you can often get the correct behavior because the horse is motivated to figure you out. I clicker train my dog, and am no genius at it, but she fills in for me. If I spent as much time clicker training my horses, I think I would be much further along in extinguishing my gelding's problem behavior. ANother example with my pushy horse. We went to load him in the trailer prior to hauling him a great distance. He was not interested in loading. I tried the rope swinging, and he managed to pull out of his halter (not buckled correctly) and took off. My mechanics with a rope are not good enough to load a horse that knows how to pull away. So, I turned to clicker training. We did put a rope into the trailer and Jim just held it. Then I started asking him to go forward via clicker training. Took about 3 minutes and he was on the trailer with no more drama. Sometimes, I think that the real issue with conventional training that is poorly applied is that even the pushy horses are not just stubborn, but they are sensitive, and are resentful of what comes across to them as unfair punishment for not responding to incomprehensibe cues. That certainly appeared to be the problem with the Big Hackney horse at the clinic. Gail This message is from: Ulrike Schnabl ulischn...@hotmail.com But handler errors do. And it seems to me that gentle natured people are the ones most attracted to clicker training, and most likely to let the horse get away with pushy-ness or rudeness. What a statement Gail,it implies A, that gentle natured people are "faint of heart" and B that they are push overs.I consider myself to be a gentle natured person and let me tell you I am far from both of these implications. Uli Schnabl,Chase BC Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
