This message is from: "Beaver Dam Farm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia --
Pat, I can understand where you, as a trainer, are coming from. -- We all
like pleasant, easy to work with horses, but my point is that it isn't that
simple. You're absolutely right that Fjordhorses need to be pleasant,
willing, and easy to work with, and should be able to be worked with by
amateurs. That's a given!
Everything you said in your first paragraph is a given that everyone agrees
with. -- However, there's still much more than that to be considered when
judging Fjords. --
I don't think the general public can just take the word of this breeder or
that trainer. Not that these people would be telling untruths, but the
thing is . . . Really, how much do they know? -- The breeder or trainer
can only tell you about the horses they've known personally. They don't
have a complete data base to work from. None of us have that, which is a
shame and it could be rectified or at least, improved on some.
What I'm saying is that in our breed, it would be a very "good thing" (as
Martha says) if records could be kept so that down the line a few years, or
50 years, we would really know which stallions had CONSISTENTLY done a good
job. Because that's what it's all about - consistency.
What I'm saying is that a stallion has to have produced a significant number
of offspring, and those offspring have to have been judged, and only then
can anyone say for certain just what kind of breeding stallion that horse
was.
In lieu of judging (evaluations), the next best thing, or maybe it's the
First Best Thing is performance records. -- This is difficult or
impossible in the Fjord breed because a lot of people don't compete their
horses, or if they do it's only local competitions, not rated ones. --
However, I believe that the Fjord breed in North America will greatly suffer
unless the horses can be evaluated by evaluators who are absolutely
qualilfied. This is how animal breeders of all kinds evaluate their stock,
and make improvements, or simply hold the line, not letting the quality of a
breed go down. -- Certifications, evaluations, breed judging, whatever you
want to call it is also the way breed societies guard against problems that
might be creeping unannounced into their breeds. -- For instance, if all
of a sudden, a large part of the Fjord breed were to be evaluated in some
fashion or another, and the judges began seeing certain problems. -- It
could be teeth. -- It could be testicles -- It could be tipped vulvas ---
It could be many different things; for instance, a noticable loss of "Breed
Type". --Any of these things and many more serious problems could possibly
be traced back to certain bloodlines. -- Do you see what I mean?
Virtual Evaluations might be very helpful here. -- Does anybody have any
other ideas how more horses could be evaluated, and records kept?
I can tell you that when I was buying horses in Holland, the records kept by
the Dutch STudbood, were absolutely invaluable to me. I could get factual
answers to almost any question, and with those answers, I could make sound
business and breeding decisions.
Carol,
I CAN tell you who DOES determine which stallions and MARES are the "good
ones". And although I am a big supporter of the American Evaluation
System,
I believe that the true test is when the offspring goes out into the
general
memberships hands and willingly performs for their owners in an honest,
trustworthy manner with disposition to please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The horses you describe might be really nice horses, but willingness and
disposition are not everything. -- Willingness and disposition are
essential in a good Fjord, but there's much much more to it than that. --
I'm sure you agree with me about that, Pat. -- I can love to death a
willing, pleasant horse, but as a breeder I can't be satisfied with just
that ---- While at the same time, I would never consider a nasty, unwilling
horse to be "a good one" no matter how beautiful he was, how well he moved,
or how athletic.
What I'm saying is that breeders should be striving to obtain all the
qualities the breed is famous for, and those qualities include ---- looks,
conformation, head, eyes, neck, legs, hooves, back, loins, tail, presence,
movement, willingness, reproductive soundness, durability, breed type, ---
The whole horse!
And the horses that meet the highest standards in all those categories ---
Those are the ones that are "Really Good Fjords".
I guess I'm just bothered when you say that the sires of Vivian's horses,
Pat's horses, Beth's horses, etc., etc. -- When you say that those are the
good ones.
Yeah, maybe some or all of those are, but how do we know it???
We can't simply say it's so because Vivian won a lot with that horse. --
Of course, in Vivian's case, we do know a lot about her mare's sire because
he's a Dutch Studbook stallion, so we can go and check and see if a
substantial number of his offspring are as athletic as Vivian's mare. --
It's a question of checking records. It's a question of a stallion
consistently proving himself. -- It's not a question of Vivian having
campaigned one horse to the heights.
But, all of this gets very confused and difficult, because in most cases,
you can't make judgements for or against certain stallions and bloodlines
based on what certain horses have done with competitive owners. -- I mean,
maybe Anne Appleby could have done the same with any number of geldings
given what she's put into it. In fact, she said much the same to me years
ago. -- Pat Wolfe does well with all his horses, so how can you attribute
anything to certain bloodlines.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At Beaver Dam Farm when we're judging movement and athleticism in horses, we
like to free lunge them. In my opinion, it's absolutely the best way to get
an accurate picture on how athletic the horse is. -- If he's trotted in
hand and he's a very big mover, there are not many that could keep up with
him and let him really show his stuff. -- If he's being ridden or driven,
the rider or driver could inhibit his performance. -- We always free lunge
the horse here. You can tell so much. You'll see if he's very forward, or
somewhat lazy. -- You can see how willing he is. You can certainly judge
presence. -- It's a far better way to judge movement than what's usually
done. -- You can even judge the horse's character and personality by
asking him to stop and come to you. The nice ones will, and then they'll
trot off again when you ask.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, hey! What about Virtual Evaluations? I think it's a brilliant idea,
if I do say so myself. -- Why not? Everybody would win. The Registry
would get money in their coffers. -- The Evaluators would make some money
. -- It would prevent the gelding of quality colts, and encourage the
gelding of inferior colts. -- It could identify defects that might be
creeping into the breed -- It would be much cheaper for individuals and
breeders - It would allow horses that never ever would be shipped to an
evaluation to be evaluated -- Weanlings could be evaluated, and Bob van Bon
said so very often that "You must evaluate your young horses." -- He said
. . . "You must evaluate, and you must identify". -- Well, now we're
identifying, and that's a very good thing. -- So, considering that in on
this vast continent of North America, we're never going to be able to do
what Europe does to safeguard the breed by officially evaluating them . . .
Why not get real and get into the 21st century by virtue of VIRTUAL
EVALUATIONS. -- What do you think?
Kind Regards, Carol Rivoire
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pat said . . .
When the "good" stallion or
mare produces offspring that Susie Sadlon can ride up mountains without
fear, can produce offspring that Rich Hotovy can take to Farm Progress and
out perform the big guys, can produce offspring that Anne Appleby takes
FEI
and then produce walk/trot offspring , when that "good" stallion or mare
produces horses for Vivian Creigh or Beth Beymer or Penny Stuckey or Pat
Wolfe and the likes of those with high end goals, then produce for the
timid, first timers AND can produce for the guy who wants to "just" enjoy
a
good horse at home...........that , in a nut shell determines which are
good
or not.
".
.
