Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Thursday 25 December 2008 03:34, Ray Saintonge wrote: >> Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: >>> I fail to see how simply presenting a list of peoples' names and telling >>> their stories constitutes "taking partisan sides in polit

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> On Thursday 25 December 2008 03:30, Ray Saintonge wrote: >> One doesn't become truly educated when someone is playing games with >> one's emotions. That just breeds true believers and more victims of >> patriotic folly. Stalin died in 1953, and while there might have been >> some justification

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Thursday 25 December 2008 03:34, Ray Saintonge wrote: > Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > > I fail to see how simply presenting a list of peoples' names and telling > > their stories constitutes "taking partisan sides in political disputes." > > It's educating people about the impact of these events,

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Thursday 25 December 2008 03:30, Ray Saintonge wrote: > One doesn't become truly educated when someone is playing games with > one's emotions. That just breeds true believers and more victims of > patriotic folly. Stalin died in 1953, and while there might have been > some justification for su

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: >> I fail to see how simply presenting a list of peoples' names and >> telling their >> stories constitutes "taking partisan sides in political disputes." >> It's >> educating people about the impact of these events, plain and simple. >> > If we cannot present the person

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> Stalin died in 1953, and while there might have been > some justification for such a project while he was still in power, now > it is nothing more than picking at old scabs to see if they will bleed. > What Stalin did cannot be undone, but understanding the importance of > those events in world h

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> 2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : > >>> Can you and Kurt come up with a proposal that doesn't abandon our >>> fabulously useful and marketable air of neutrality? > >> Yes, good thought, I think we could. After all, it is a sort of >> cemetery. > > > I suspect it would turn into a universal biographical di

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> 2008/12/25 Ian A. Holton : > >> I do however believe that such a project is a good idea and also >> believe >> that it being hosted outside of the WMF might even be benefitial and >> might >> even be worth an organisation itself if the scope is extended to cover >> more >> than "just" the victims

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008/12/25 Ian A. Holton : > I do however believe that such a project is a good idea and also believe > that it being hosted outside of the WMF might even be benefitial and might > even be worth an organisation itself if the scope is extended to cover more > than "just" the victims of one regime,

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : >> Can you and Kurt come up with a proposal that doesn't abandon our >> fabulously useful and marketable air of neutrality? > Yes, good thought, I think we could. After all, it is a sort of cemetery. I suspect it would turn into a universal biographical dictionary. But

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote: > Fred Bauder wrote: > >> Can you and Kurt come up with a proposal that doesn't abandon our > >> fabulously useful and marketable air of neutrality? > >> > > Yes, good thought, I think we could. After all, it is a sort of cemetery. > > > > > M

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

Fred Bauder wrote: >> Can you and Kurt come up with a proposal that doesn't abandon our >> fabulously useful and marketable air of neutrality? >> > Yes, good thought, I think we could. After all, it is a sort of cemetery. > > Maybe it would be better to start the project on Wikia. That wou

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > I fail to see how simply presenting a list of peoples' names and telling > their > stories constitutes "taking partisan sides in political disputes." It's > educating people about the impact of these events, plain and simple. > If we cannot present the personal tr

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Wednesday 24 December 2008 11:02, David Gerard wrote: > >> Yes. However, it could be a valuable wiki to create privately. Generic >> hosting is (a) really cheap (b) often includes MediaWiki out the box. >> The wiki is unlikely to be vastly overloaded, so cheap host

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

Fred Bauder wrote: >> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a memorial >> project for all disasters. I echo Mr. Bimmler in his concerns about the >> motives behind this proposal. >> > > I think half a dozen might do, one for the victims of Hitler, one for the > victims

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

Fred Bauder wrote: >> I must agree with Mr Gerard, and taking that position, or any position >> by the Foundation is a road I don't want to see WMF go down. I don't >> want WMF to alienate anyone... anyone. The information must be free, >> and global. For everyone. >> >> Please don't intrepet th

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

David Gerard wrote: > 2008/12/25 Fred Bauder >> If we stood for something, it might serve to invigorate. >> > You mean, taking a particular political position? I don't see that in > the mission. > You have to admit that debate would be greatly invigorated. Ec _

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:13:17 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Wednesday 24 December 2008 19:53, you wrote: >> I posit that the "memorial project" i

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> Can you and Kurt come up with a proposal that doesn't abandon our > fabulously useful and marketable air of neutrality? Yes, good thought, I think we could. After all, it is a sort of cemetery. Fred ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Wednesday 24 December 2008 20:30, David Gerard wrote: > >> 2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : >> >>> Hard to keep things straight isn't it when the object is to make a point. >>> I speak of Red China, still controlled by Mao's heirs. >>> >> Well, yes. (Who thankf

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 20:30, David Gerard wrote: > 2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : > > Hard to keep things straight isn't it when the object is to make a point. > > I speak of Red China, still controlled by Mao's heirs. > > Well, yes. (Who thankfully are not gross incompetents at the actual > mana

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Wednesday 24 December 2008 19:53, you wrote: >> I posit that the "memorial project" is not essential. I think it >> would drain resources from our mission. >> >> Jon > As I explained in the proposal (again, did you read

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 19:53, you wrote: > > I posit that the "memorial project" is not essential. I think it > would drain resources from our mission. > > Jon As I explained in the proposal (again, did you read the proposal?) it is an essential part of the WMF's mission. -- Kurt Weber ht

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : > Hard to keep things straight isn't it when the object is to make a point. > I speak of Red China, still controlled by Mao's heirs. Well, yes. (Who thankfully are not gross incompetents at the actual management to the degree he was.) And it turns out that remaining poli

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008/12/25 geni : > 2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : >>> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a memorial >>> project for all disasters. I echo Mr. Bimmler in his concerns about the >>> motives behind this proposal. >> I think half a dozen might do, one for the victims of Hitler,

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> 2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : > >> Oh, but we are, just by what we do. And the mass murders of the >> twentieth >> century would have made short work of us. In fact, in the last regime >> controlled by them Wikipedia is blocked. > > > Controlled by the Soviets, who I understand were the subject of the

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 geni wrote: > 2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : >>> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a >>> memorial project for all disasters. I echo Mr. Bimmler in his >>> concerns about the motives behind this proposal. >> I think half a dozen mi

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : >> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a memorial >> project for all disasters. I echo Mr. Bimmler in his concerns about the >> motives behind this proposal. > > I think half a dozen might do, one for the victims of Hitler, one for the > victims of

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : > Oh, but we are, just by what we do. And the mass murders of the twentieth > century would have made short work of us. In fact, in the last regime > controlled by them Wikipedia is blocked. Controlled by the Soviets, who I understand were the subject of the proposed wik

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> I must agree with Mr Gerard, and taking that position, or any position > by the Foundation is a road I don't want to see WMF go down. I don't > want WMF to alienate anyone... anyone. The information must be free, > and global. For everyone. > > Please don't intrepet this message as my defendi

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Gerard wrote: > 2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : > >> If we stood for something, it might serve to invigorate. > > > You mean, taking a particular political position? I don't see that > in the mission. > > > - d. > > _

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a memorial > project for all disasters. I echo Mr. Bimmler in his concerns about the > motives behind this proposal. I think half a dozen might do, one for the victims of Hitler, one for the victims of Stalin, one for the victims of P

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : > Each of the millions who were starved, imprisoned, tortured, or killed > has a unique story. Each story is more significant and educational than a > Wikipedia article on Hitler or Stalin. The same applies to the Sep11 wiki. Why was that moved offsite? - d. _

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008/12/25 Fred Bauder : > If we stood for something, it might serve to invigorate. You mean, taking a particular political position? I don't see that in the mission. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: h

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

>>> >>> The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage >>> people around the world to collect and develop educational >>> content under a free license >>> or in the public >>> domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally. >

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: >> On Wednesday 24 December 2008 19:25, Jon wrote: >>> I don't think it is something we should focus on. Let us focus >>> on our existing projects, perfect them. Reference my earlier >>> rationale. >> >> Given that th

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Fred Bauder wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 >> >> Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: >>> On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:12, Geoffrey Plourde wrote: Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a memorial proj

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: >>> On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:43, Phil Nash wrote: Geoffrey Plourde wrote: >> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a >> memorial project for all disasters. I echo Mr. Bimmler in his >> concerns about the motives behind thi

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: >> On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:12, Geoffrey Plourde wrote: >>> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a >>> memorial >>> project for all disasters. >> >> And what, in principle, is wrong with

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Wednesday 24 December 2008 19:25, Jon wrote: >> I don't think it is something we should focus on. Let us focus >> on our existing projects, perfect them. Reference my earlier >> rationale. > > Given that these are all v

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: >> On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:43, Phil Nash wrote: >>> Geoffrey Plourde wrote: > Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a > memorial project for all disasters. I echo Mr. Bimmler in his > concerns about the motives behind this propo

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 19:25, Jon wrote: > > I don't think it is something we should focus on. Let us focus on our > existing projects, perfect them. Reference my earlier rationale. Given that these are all volunteer projects, those more interested in improving existing projects will do

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:43, Phil Nash wrote: >> Geoffrey Plourde wrote: Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a memorial project for all disasters. I echo Mr. Bimmler in his co

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:43, Phil Nash wrote: > Geoffrey Plourde wrote: > >> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a > >> memorial project for all disasters. I echo Mr. Bimmler in his > >> concerns about the motives behind this proposal. > > I'm in some agreement her

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:12, Geoffrey Plourde wrote: >> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a >> memorial project for all disasters. > > And what, in principle, is wrong with that? > I also

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

hat such memorial projects might have that idea as a focus. However, the way it's been put forward seems to militate against that construction. >> >> >> From: Fred Bauder >> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List >> >&

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:12, Geoffrey Plourde wrote: >> Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a memorial >> project for all disasters. > > And what, in principle, is wrong with that? > Kurt,

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:12, Geoffrey Plourde wrote: > Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a memorial > project for all disasters. And what, in principle, is wrong with that? -- Kurt Weber http://blog.kurtweber.us __

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

24, 2008 2:12:25 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial > 2008/12/24 Michael Bimmler : > >> A project which is motivated in such a way cannot possibly be anything >> else than biased...and indeed, the very concept of memorials is >&g

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

> 2008/12/24 Michael Bimmler : > >> A project which is motivated in such a way cannot possibly be anything >> else than biased...and indeed, the very concept of memorials is >> biased: Why should we have a memorial of the victims of Soviet >> Repression, when we don't have a memorial of Nazi victim

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On 12/24/08, David Gerard wrote: > 2008/12/24 Michael Bimmler : > >> A project which is motivated in such a way cannot possibly be anything >> else than biased...and indeed, the very concept of memorials is >> biased: Why should we have a memorial of the victims of Soviet >> Repression, when we do

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 11:02, David Gerard wrote: > > Yes. However, it could be a valuable wiki to create privately. Generic > hosting is (a) really cheap (b) often includes MediaWiki out the box. > The wiki is unlikely to be vastly overloaded, so cheap hosting would > do for a start. > > Se

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008/12/24 Michael Bimmler : > A project which is motivated in such a way cannot possibly be anything > else than biased...and indeed, the very concept of memorials is > biased: Why should we have a memorial of the victims of Soviet > Repression, when we don't have a memorial of Nazi victims, vict

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > On Wednesday 24 December 2008 03:10, Delirium wrote: >> Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: >> > I have submitted a new project proposal, at >> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Soviet_Repressions_Memorial >> >> Isn't this the sort of th

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 03:10, Delirium wrote: > Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > > I have submitted a new project proposal, at > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Soviet_Repressions_Memorial > > Isn't this the sort of thing we've been in the business of slowly > getting out of, with the

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: > I have submitted a new project proposal, at > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Soviet_Repressions_Memorial > Isn't this the sort of thing we've been in the business of slowly getting out of, with the move offsite of the September 11 memorial wiki? The cons

[Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

I have submitted a new project proposal, at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Soviet_Repressions_Memorial -- Kurt Weber http://blog.kurtweber.us ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedi