Dear Alison,
I'm so sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you. That's not at all
what I wanted! When I was writing about a "young and fresh team full of energy"
I did not in any way wanted to imply anything negative about older people. Not at all!
Let me explain where I was coming from, please: I know the product and all
these complaints since 20 years - 19 years before I started at Adobe. And I did
the same complaints than many other here. And why did I do this? Because I made
the same experiences and got frustrated from time to time as well. And you know
what? Personally I think it was very valid to criticize a lot of things and it
was often very legitimate.
But things have changed. The Adobe TechComm team that I know today has a very customer
focused, open and listening attitude. We want your feedback, we want your bug reports and
we want to fix them. We even go out and actively "hunt for bugs" in forums and
with customers, and we want to improve the product, and we want to and we do solve old,
long outstanding bugs and problems. This is true for the support team, true for the
engineering team and true for all other of my colleagues in the Adobe TechComm team.
And yes, I do think it's sometimes good to let history be history. That does
not mean forgetting and that does not mean ignoring history. Yes, I absolutely
agree with you that we do need to learn from history to make the future better.
And, believe me – as a German I grew up with that attitude my whole life. It's
so to say deep in my DNA. But sometimes it's also good to accept that things
change: Life, business, colleagues, friends etc. – and then move forward, focus
on the future, take a new look at things, realistically review the status quo
and compare it with the past. And sometimes it's also a good idea to accept
that people, products and companies can and do change their attitudes and are
doing better.
By the way, Adobe is one of the best employers worldwide, and gets the best rankings from their employees year after year, and
Adobe is treating their employees very well in many aspects and has a great culture of diversity, equality, respect and
creativity. I'm not aware of anyone in my team who what not sign that immediately. And maybe that's why we are "fresh and
with a lot of energy". Young is relative (I'm 41 "only"? "already"?). And maybe it's more about staying
"young" in the mind and an attitude. So yes, we are a "young" team, with many fresh and good ideas, full of
innovation, energized to solve old problems and come up with great new solutions.
There are of course people in the team who are in the team for many years. But for a
product that has a 30 years history, it's normal in the IT world that teams change.
People join and leave over the years. That has nothing to do with "bad
treatment" or anything negative you might want to want to imply. It's just normal
life.
That said, sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you.
That's not at all what I wanted.
So, and now I will open a ticket in our system for implementing something that Rick
Quatro had send me earlier today. Another of those "old" (may I?), long pending
request :-)
Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+gentz=adobe....@lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of Craig, Alison
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 19:28
To: Peter Gold <peter@petergold.photography>; An email list for people using Adobe
FrameMaker software. <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to
menu icons
I’m sorry but this is offensive to me on so many levels – possibly others as
well. And it’s indicative of too many players in the software world these days.
And? History is history! More or less no one from the old FrameMaker days is in
the FrameMaker team today. Product Managers, engineers, QA, etc. – the whole
team is pretty young and fresh. And with a lot of energy.
History isn’t just history. Remember "those who do not learn history are doomed to
repeat it" which means you make the same mistakes over and over. Sound familiar when
taken in context with some of the comments in this thread?
It’s not an accomplishment to say “More or less no one from the old FrameMaker
days is in the FrameMaker team today”. That’s a sad commentary on the way Adobe
(among others) does business and how it treats its employees.
And “young and fresh…with a lot of energy” in this context is nothing to brag
about. It implies that older, experienced personnel just drag down the team..
“Tried and true” can be better for *good* reason. I’ve personally seen “young
and fresh” team members push for something that’s long since been rejected by
users as the opposite of what’s actually needed or even worse, completely
useless. But hey, it’s cute and/or trendy! And isn’t that what counts?
Experienced team members with an ingrained history of the program’s development
arc can steer the team away from revisiting *proven* bad ideas and the more
obvious *silly* ones. Of course, that’s only if they have the stamina and
energy to get out bed every morning and make it to work at all, let alone on
time.
Alison Craig
Technical Documentation Specialist
BK Ultrasound | acr...@bkultrasound.com
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=bkultrasound....@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf
Of Stefan Gentz
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:25 AM
To: Peter Gold
Cc: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to
menu icons
Hi Peter,
my history with FrameMaker might be short and small compared to yours (I have
only about 20 years of FrameMaker history on my shoulders, only something like
+50,000 hours of working with FM, and only several million pages processed for
all kind of companies from very small to super big in only up to 60 languages
in both unstructured and structured FrameMaker). But I know many of the fights
you fought as well and understand very well where you are coming from.
I remember very well the time when I modified the fmdlg.dll in the late 90ies and early
two thousands to make several dialogs bigger (especially the xref dialog). Or how I
hacked the FrameMaker.exe to output unmodified bookmarks code into ps and created
fmroman to Unicode mapping tables, and hooked them into distillers epilog.ps. Or my
scripts to do regex-based find & replace in MIF source code because the find &
replace in FrameMaker was, let’s say: very basic. And I remember very well my yearlong
fights for Unicode in FrameMaker and later on my yearlong fights for Right-To-Left
support. I have fought countless fights with Adobe for about 20 years, before I finally
joined them. So, tell me something, Peter …
And? History is history! More or less no one from the old FrameMaker days is in
the FrameMaker team today. Product Managers, engineers, QA, etc. – the whole
team is pretty young and fresh. And with a lot of energy. And in the last two
years only they have tackled hundreds and hundreds of long and outstanding
community wishes and requirements and many old bugs. Over the last 20 years a
lot of them had accumulated. And in the last 2 years only, a big bunch of them
were fixed and delivered. There are still some left and we are already working
on them. With the soon to come Update 1 for FrameMaker we will fix and deliver
on the next bunch of some long-time requests and bugs.
Adobe pushed FM development in the last 2 years heavily. The release cycles
become much shorter and every three months a bigger update with new
enhancements and bug fixes is rolled out. Our list of community wished is
getting shorter every day and we have already started on tackling several other
bigger areas of improvement.
Maybe it’s time, Peter, to adjust your negative picture that you have built
over the last 20, 30 years.
Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
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From: knowhow...@gmail.com<mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com>
[mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 01:35
To: Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com><mailto:ge...@adobe.com%3e>
Cc: Peter Gold <peter@petergold.photography><mailto:peter@petergold.photography%3e>; An email list for
people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
<framers@lists.frameusers.com><mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com%3e>; Lin Sims
<ljsims...@gmail.com><mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com%3e>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to
menu icons
Hi, Stefan:
Thanks for your detailed reply.
Again, with all due respect, your short history with FrameMaker puts you at a
disadvantage, because, over the decades, many of the detailed recent feature
enhancements, additions, and bug-fixes you noted, have been kicked to the "for
future action" lists many times over.
We do appreciate the effort it's taken all the team members to achieve these
improvements. We've never doubted the sincere dedication that the FrameMaker
developers and teammates bring to the challenges of moving FM forward.
However, the over-arching reality is that the decision-makers who apportion the
bare-subsistence budget to development are in control, so despite the good
intentions and dedication of the development team to meet the competitive needs
and customer/user requirements and requests, they continue to exist in the same
borderline-survival mode.
One of the earliest and perennially-reappearing feature-enhancement requests
that I can remember was the ability to resize the text size of menu commands,
with the corollary request to be able to resize dialog boxes and their
contents. Over the years some smart folks figured out operating-system tweaks
and hacks that offered some help here, but the difficulty of bringing the
feature into the product indicates the flawed architecture.
I can't remember how many years of requests it took until FM finally got a multiple-Undo
history feature. The mantra excuse from early-on was "re-engineering to support that
feature takes resources and time we do not have. Sorry. Maybe next release. Thanks for
your request." I built a kludgy substitute with a keystroke-recording utility in the
early days, just to have a tool for my needs.
In 1994, I joined an independent Sun Computer reseller as their FrameMaker trainer. Their
customer names included nearly all the major high-tech companies in Silicon Valley. (Oh,
where have they gone? We turn our lonely eyes...) They had just introduced an add-on that
gave FM tables the ability to perform like spreadsheets. It became successful, so they
tried to interest Frame Technology in licensing it. However, just then, Adobe bought FM,
and they turned it down, because "we have plans to build that into a future
release." That never happened. Maybe it was the scarcity of resources? Hm... Some
years later, I learned from the CEO of my company, that he'd thought of it one day, and
gave it to a couple of programmers who built it in a few days. It worked, solved a user
need, sold well, had value, and then became a part of history, because they were
expecting Adobe to make it and pre-empt their opportunity.
What's really surprising and ennobling about FM, is how much the original
designers and developers got right about it - from the earliest releases, FM
reliably did so much of what enterprise-scale technical authors needed. What's
disappointing has been how hard it's been to improve the process and underlying
engineering to efficiently evolve it.
Thanks for inviting participation in the conversation. However, realize that
every time a user encounters a persistent sore spot in their workflow, all the
warm fuzzies and reassurances lose their value.
Again, just my opinions.
On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Stefan Gentz
<ge...@adobe.com<mailto:ge...@adobe.com><mailto:ge...@adobe.com>><mailto:ge...@adobe.com%3e%3e>
wrote:
Hi Peter,
thanks for your honest feedback! Please allow me to answer a little bit more
comprehensive (sorry, if it became a little bit long …)
There's always been the sense in replies to user requests, that users
who ask for product improvements and enhancements are whiners who
aren't satisfied with an already-great product.
I cannot comment on the past as I joined Adobe just a little bit more than a
year ago (and personally never made this experience), but I can say for sure
that not a single one of my colleagues in the Adobe TechComm team as it is
today has in any way an attitude like this. In the contrary. We are all very
passionate about the product, actively listen to the users and take every
feedback and suggestion very seriously. I know this sounds very much like
marketing blah-blah, but that’s exactly how it is. Since I started at Adobe I
had virtually hundreds of one on one conversations on conferences around the
world actively collecting feedback, channeling it and bringing it into the
system. A huge amount of this went into the 2017 release.
The countless technical authors and communicators who have used
FrameMaker to create this priceless collection of information deserve
respect when they suggest and request improvements in the product they
rely upon daily and know intimately.
Absolutely! I could not agree more on this. And you can be sure that everyone
in the Adobe TechComm team has exactly this attitude and appreciation of the
community. Again, I cannot comment on the past, but both the product management
and myself listen very carefully to all the suggestions and requests for
improvements.
We do listen to the community and in both the 2015 and 2017 release we have
implemented a lot of requests from the community. Some things are very small
and might not even get noticed. But in both releases there are several thousand
(!) smaller and bigger changes and improvements based on exactly such feedback.
E.g. some users wanted FrameMaker to remember the “Find/Change” history. Done
in 2017. Others told us, that the organization of entries in the find/change
drop downs is chaotic and not logical to access. Fixed in the 2017 release.
Others wanted to get the behavior in the “Files save as” dialog changed to stay
in the same file format of the currently open file and change the file
extension automatically when you change the fle format in the drop down. Done
in the 2017 release. Others wanted get a faster and more easy way to insert
graphics. Done in the 2017 release. Others wanted to get several dialogs
resizable. Done in the 2017 release. Others wanted to get the spelling checkers
better and behave differently (not so “over-aggressive”). We updated them to
the latest engines available on the market in the 2017 release and changed the
behavior to match the writing process better. Others wanted to get a better
overview in the conditional tags pod by seeing the colors of the conditions.
Done in the 2017 release. Others wanted to get text tabs back in the designer
pods and get rid of the icons. Done in the 2017 release. Others asked us to
finally get rid of the old, wired console window and make it a pod. Guess what?
Done in the 2017 release. Others strongly requested to make dynamic content
feature available for DITA based in attributes. Done in the 2017 release.
Several DITA authors asked us to show the current element position in bread
crump like path. Done in the 2017 release. Others complained about several
issues when authoring DITA (like the behavior when you click return in a list
item). Done in the 2017 release. Others wanted to make us the HTML5 output
Section 508 compliant. Done in the 2017 release. Or improve the way CSS are
generated and managed. Done in the 2017 release. Others demanded support for
high-dpi screens. Done in the 2017 release. Others wanted to have the setting
for borders and text symbols a “global” setting and finally no longer a “by
document” setting. Done in the 2017 release. And so on. In total there are over
1,300 smaller and bigger changes in FrameMaker 2017 and most of them are based
on feedback from the users.
One of the fundamental issues that have crippled FM development, going
back to the 1990s is it's original engineering architecture.
Over the years, it's been patched in many truly genius ways, to be
able to provide more and newer features. However, the more complicated
the patchwork has become, the more difficult it has become to evolve.
In the 2015 and 2017 releases a huge amount of work went into the core of the
product. In Fm 2017 the font engine was completely reengineered (to make
FrameMaker compatible with RTL languages (like Arabic, Farsi and Hebrew) and
complex script languages (ike Thai). Today you can author virtually all
languages in the world with FrameMaker. In the 2017 release a huge part of
FrameMaker was reengineered to make FrameMaker’s user interface technology fit
for the future. Beside this a lot of ground work in the code was done to set
the foundation for future developments.
Most of this is not visible to the end-user, but it was necessary ground work
in the background that had to be done. In many aspects FrameMaker 2017 is a
much more modern product today “under the hood” and in many aspects the
foundation is set for the future. It might not be “visible”, but we had to do
this and you can be sure, that we will continue to make FrameMaker the best
tool for technical writers.
Perhaps it's time, within Adobe, to give FM the world-class
recognition its earned over the decades, give it the development
budget it deserves, and retire the obsolete engineering model, as well
as the obsolete lame excuse.
Oh yes! Believe me, everyone in the Adobe TechComm team would love to get a
bigger budget. And we’re fighting for it everyday competing with other business
units :)
But to be realistic … just look at every normal company. I guess more or less
all of you have made this experience: How big is the budget of the marketing
department? And how small is the budget of the tech comm department? Right. And
guess what? Adobe has excellent tools for creatives and marketing … and
excellent tools for TechComm. I guess you get the idea :)
Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
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