I have to agree here, one of the major issues in writing device drivers,
which I used to do for a living, is getting proper documentation for
the devices themselves. For something like video cards, it's even worse
because the cards change so rapidly. I can imagine that there will be some
issues
On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 10:04:10 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote:
> -On [2124 08:01], Mike Smith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>>> I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It
>>> certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to
>>> seasoned hac
On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 17:40:13 +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:
> Documenting the available debugging tools and useful debugging
> techniques would be mostly welcome. Aside from "how do I use the kernel
> debugger", use of tools such as truss, and loading symbol tables to
> kld's (see Greg L
On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 7:09:35 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Mike Smith wrote:
>>
I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It
certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to
seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD st
On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 2:28:23 -0500, Chuck Robey wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, William A. Maniatty wrote:
>
>> Both Chuck Robey and Mike Smith have some points, but that won't
>> stop me from giving my opinion :-). Mike is correct that experience is
>> key to being a solid systems softwa
On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 2:44:43 -0500, William A. Maniatty wrote:
> Hi There:
>
> Chuck Robey Writes:
>> I know where Mike's coming from. Wait until the next guy posts on the
>> list "I don't really know how to program, but please tell what 'C' is, and
>> how to write a device driver". We
On Sunday, 23 January 2000 at 22:35:53 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
>> I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It
>> certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to
>> seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate
>> comments, and s
Mike Smith wrote:
>
> Writing documentation is a resource-sucking nuisance; supporting outdated
> documentation even more so. The BSD driver model is sufficiently simple
I think that there might be a compromise
solution: when someone learns the interface
from analysing the code he might as well
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
writes:
: So my statement was actually more in reflection to NetBSD's support of
: it. Whether or not they support busses which do 8 byte atomic
: reads/writes I am not sure of.
:
: Thanks for the reality adjustment Warner. =)
Yes. Looking
-On [2124 19:55], Warner Losh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
>writes:
>: >As long as a device is just inb/outb (I seem to recall newbus have a
>: >replacement for these)
>:
>: bus_space_read_#() / bus_space_write_#()
>:
>: Where # is 1, 2,
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes:
: >As long as a device is just inb/outb (I seem to recall newbus have a
: >replacement for these)
:
: bus_space_read_#() / bus_space_write_#()
:
: Where # is 1, 2, 4, or 8. But I don't think we support atomic 8 byte
: atomic reads an
-On [2124 08:01], Chuck Robey ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>The problem is, you can't even find what the interfaces are. Reading the
>code isn't very useful if you can't even find the right place to start
>from. At least the interface points could be listed, so that someone
>would know where
-On [2124 10:13], William A. Maniatty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>Is it possible to get a look at the digital Unix guides, that might be a
>good starting point. Are they on line (perhaps you have a URL)?
http://www.unix.digital.com/faqs/publications/dev_doc/DOCUMENTATION/HTML/Digital_UNIX_B
-On [2124 10:13], Daniel C. Sobral ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>As long as a device is just inb/outb (I seem to recall newbus have a
>replacement for these)
bus_space_read_#() / bus_space_write_#()
Where # is 1, 2, 4, or 8. But I don't think we support atomic 8 byte
atomic reads and writes.
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Mike Smith wrote:
>
> > > I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It
> > > certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to
> > > seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate
> > > comments, and so what y
-On [2124 10:13], Daniel C. Sobral ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>Bill Maniatty wrote:
>>
>> First we want to get the mechanism of driver installation down, then
>> try our hands at writing our own driver. I fear that if we roll our own
>> driver software we may find that if we have errors (not
-On [2124 08:01], Mike Smith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It
>> certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to
>> seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate
>> comments, and so wh
Bill Maniatty wrote:
>
> First we want to get the mechanism of driver installation down, then
> try our hands at writing our own driver. I fear that if we roll our own
> driver software we may find that if we have errors (not that we ever have
> errors mind you :-) we may not be able to isolate
On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, William A. Maniatty wrote:
> I'm probably not quite cool enough to be in on the joke here, but what
> is a dog polisher?
You use it to polish your dog.
Since all good dog polishers connect to computers running unix, you need a
device driver to interface with the dog polisher
Matthew Dodd wrote:
[stuff about stepwise refinement approach deleted]
>The Digital Unix device driver writers guides are kinda nifty like that.
>
Is it possible to get a look at the digital Unix guides, that might be a
good starting point. Are they on line (perhaps you have a URL)?
>
Is it poss
Hi There:
Chuck Robey Writes:
>I know where Mike's coming from. Wait until the next guy posts on the
>list "I don't really know how to program, but please tell what 'C' is, and
>how to write a device driver". We had a pretty nasty flamewar over that
>maybe (I think) 9 months ago, and it still h
On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, William A. Maniatty wrote:
> Actually a document with a step by step development of a very simple
> driver might actually tell someone how to write a driver AND give them
> their first experience at writing a driver :-).
The Digital Unix device driver writers guides are kinda
On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, William A. Maniatty wrote:
> Both Chuck Robey and Mike Smith have some points, but that won't
> stop me from giving my opinion :-). Mike is correct that experience is
> key to being a solid systems software developer, who writes device drivers.
> Now the next question is how
Chuck Robey writes:
>On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Mike Smith wrote:
>
>> > I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It
>> > certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to
>> > seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate
>> > comments
On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Mike Smith wrote:
> > I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It
> > certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to
> > seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate
> > comments, and so what you see from
> I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It
> certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to
> seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate
> comments, and so what you see from the code is mainly tactics, not
> strategy.
You
> On Sunday, 23 January 2000 at 11:48:39 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote:
> > Hello Jeroen:
> > Jeroen Ruigrok (in response to Greg Lehey and myself):
> >
> >> -On [2123 11:11], Greg Lehey ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 2) Choose a non-essential device with a simple preexisting driver.
> 3)
On Sunday, 23 January 2000 at 11:48:39 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote:
> Hello Jeroen:
> Jeroen Ruigrok (in response to Greg Lehey and myself):
>
>> -On [2123 11:11], Greg Lehey ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
2) Choose a non-essential device with a simple preexisting driver.
3) Remove all tr
I'd also concentrate more on the relatively completely newbused
drivers:
dev/ed
dev/ep
dev/sn
and ignore the incomplete ones, of which only one comes to bind (aha).
Warner
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of t
On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote:
> >A possibly better alternative is to find a device which isn't
> >currently supported by FreeBSD and write a driver for it. This would
> >have the advantage that the work would also be a contribution to
> >FreeBSD. The question that I can't a
Mike Smith Writes (in response to me):
>
>>
>> Actually the lack a reference or tutorial document is kind of damning
>> in a way, since it gives hardware vendors a powerful excuse not to
>> support FreeBSD in the way that say Lin*x is supported.
>
>We have a better solution; they just give us th
>
> Actually the lack a reference or tutorial document is kind of damning
> in a way, since it gives hardware vendors a powerful excuse not to
> support FreeBSD in the way that say Lin*x is supported.
We have a better solution; they just give us the documentation and we
write the drivers for th
On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Bill Maniatty wrote:
> > Definately not an ethernet card. *g*
> > Seems no-one can keep up with Bill Paul in that aspect. =)
>
> We probably could not compete :-), but we are interested in ethernet
> card drivers (at some point) and would like to learn.
>
> > You could try
Hello Jeroen:
Jeroen Ruigrok (in response to Greg Lehey and myself):
> -On [2123 11:11], Greg Lehey ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >[adding -doc, which is more appropriate for some of the questions]
> >
> >On Saturday, 22 January 2000 at 23:06:41 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote:
>
> >> I have a st
-On [2123 11:11], Greg Lehey ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>[adding -doc, which is more appropriate for some of the questions]
>
>On Saturday, 22 January 2000 at 23:06:41 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote:
>> I have a student this semester in my Operating Systems class who would like
>> to become a bit
[adding -doc, which is more appropriate for some of the questions]
On Saturday, 22 January 2000 at 23:06:41 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote:
> Hello All:
>
> I have a student this semester in my Operating Systems class who would like
> to become a bit more knowledgeable about systems software. I sugg
Hello All:
I have a student this semester in my Operating Systems class who would like
to become a bit more knowledgeable about systems software. I suggested
that he learn a bit about how device drivers are written in FreeBSD
as a minor project. My questions are:
1) Does any current documentat
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