Re: [FRIAM] Faith and Science (was comm.)

2009-09-18 Thread glen e. p. ropella
Thus spake Miles Parker circa 09-09-18 10:18 AM: > Now, this really is the heart of the matter. One certainly can > experience without forming an opinion. Granted, that can take a lot of > practice. But a world in which all phenomenon could only be appreciated > through our learned, parochial biase

Re: [FRIAM] Faith and Science (was comm.)

2009-09-18 Thread glen e. p. ropella
Thus spake Russ Abbott circa 09-09-18 09:53 AM: > Glen, You and Nick (and I) actually agree that thought is not necessary for > us to eat, walk, etc. We do it whether or not we think that we do it. It > seems to me that you are supposing that Nick (and I) are saying something > different. We're not

Re: [FRIAM] Faith and Science (was comm.)

2009-09-18 Thread Miles Parker
On Sep 18, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Russ Abbott wrote: And by the way, when I say one can't help but have an opinion about the color of the sky I'm really saying that one can't help but have an opinion about one's experience of seeing the sky. Certainly one can ask whether it even makes sense to

Re: [FRIAM] Faith and Science (was comm.)

2009-09-18 Thread Russ Abbott
And by the way, when I say one can't help but have an opinion about the color of the sky I'm really saying that one can't help but have an opinion about one's experience of seeing the sky. Certainly one can ask whether it even makes sense to say that the sky has a color, and if so how would one me

Re: [FRIAM] Faith and Science (was comm.)

2009-09-18 Thread Russ Abbott
Glen, You and Nick (and I) actually agree that thought is not necessary for us to eat, walk, etc. We do it whether or not we think that we do it. It seems to me that you are supposing that Nick (and I) are saying something different. We're not. What I'm saying (and what I imagine Nick is saying) i

Re: [FRIAM] Faith and Science (was comm.)

2009-09-18 Thread Miles Parker
On Sep 17, 2009, at 10:46 PM, russell standish wrote: On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:53:19PM -0600, Nicholas Thompson wrote: Wait a minute! They cannot call it a dilusion because "dilusion" presupposes a state of affairs that IS -- i.e., a reality. Yes, I would imagine that the people shouting

Re: [FRIAM] Faith and Science (was comm.)

2009-09-18 Thread glen e. p. ropella
Thus spake Nicholas Thompson circa 09/17/2009 10:06 PM: > How can you even write to me without presupposing my existence. Because that is what we _do_. We talk to each other. And we've been talking to each other long _before_ we ever had the biologically based ability to _presuppose_ your existe

Re: [FRIAM] Emergence Seminar II, British Emergence

2009-09-18 Thread Roger Critchlow
Maybe we should read Mill, the chapter on the composition of causes is only 5 pages: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27942/27942-h/27942-h.html#toc53 -- rec -- On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > The seminar met this afternoon, now eight in number. > > I would like to