Re: [FRIAM] Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-13 Thread gⅼеɳ ☣
I found this essay interesting: Why the Greatest Advocates of Nonviolence Didn't Condemn Anti-Racist, Anti-Fascist Acts of Violence http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/41902-why-the-greatest-advocates-of-nonviolence-didn-t-condemn-anti-racist-anti-fascist-acts-of-violence It loops back on our

Re: [FRIAM] Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-13 Thread Marcus Daniels
Is an action that is not visible (or is very localized) is taken that shortens a life of an individual or a threatening group of people (e.g. neo-nazis), consistent with nonviolence? What about an action that prevents reproduction? What if it is not known who caused harm or if it was caused

Re: [FRIAM] Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-13 Thread Steven A Smith
Glen - Great find. I was just in DC over Labor Day and experienced the various Monuments, the Museums, the Galleries, and the edifices of power in a whole new way... more as a tourist than ever before, but also able to take in some of the grandeur, not just the grandiosity of it all.   The Wh

[FRIAM] Pacifism: was Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-13 Thread Steven A Smith
Marcus - I can only answer this for myself.  To the extent I am pacifistic, and identify with pacifism as a principle, I will state my own position/experience: While I do value consequences, I value intentions yet more, there has been a lot of ambiguity and ambivalence in my life because of

Re: [FRIAM] Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-13 Thread gⅼеɳ ☣
I suspect your questions are rhetorical. But since I never tire of hearing my own voice... On 09/13/2017 11:20 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Is the concern among pacifists about the practical consequences of violence > or about the actual physical harm to another? This article suggests to me

Re: [FRIAM] Pacifism: was Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-13 Thread Marcus Daniels
Steve, A pacifist, when confronted with a person that physically coerces another, will only exercise non-violent, indirect, remedies to stop that. Yes? And typically, the state has exclusive use of violence, so if a state goes off the rails, there may not be any remedy without that some con

[FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

2017-09-13 Thread Owen Densmore
Medium, my current outlet of choice, has an interesting "story" (Medium deals in Stories, not Tech nor Politics nor ...). It echos a lot of what we've been dealing with. ​​ https://medium.com/@russroberts/the-world-turned-upside-down-and-what-to-do- about-it-2dc27d1cf5f5 ​Somewhat dark, but aw

Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

2017-09-13 Thread Marcus Daniels
Owen, On several occasions over the years, I have been advised by `neural third parties' that the content of my writing can be edgy, but that in person I'm "Not that way" or "He's fine." Now, some people think that in-person interactions are more representative of a person's character. Tha