Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread Marcus Daniels
Out of curiosity, does over-intervention concern apply to government behavior only? One could imagine the same technology trends empower many groups and individuals. On 9/14/18, 5:44 PM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣" wrote: Hm. As usual, it depends on what you want to have happen, I supp

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
Hm. As usual, it depends on what you want to have happen, I suppose. Educating a zealot who wants to kill everyone will only make them more capable of killing everyone. If your desire is to avoid killing everyone, then the dogmatic group needs to be isolated or eliminated. But my guess is th

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread Marcus Daniels
I was thinking more of the 12 Monkeys example, more so than the current phenomena of gun violence. If any dogmatic group can kill us all by downloading a nanotech kit, shouldn't either 1) they be educated, isolated, or eliminated with haste or 2) there be strong controls on distributing some ki

Re: [FRIAM] Friam Today

2018-09-14 Thread Frank Wimberly
That makes sense. Harvard has $40 billion endowment last I heard. Facebook has a market cap much greater than that. --- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wi

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
Well, sure. If you intend to intervene, you have to choose the type of intervention. So, the "Killing versus Letting Die" dilemma is a special form of "intervene or don't". But if you choose to intervene, you have to also choose how to intervene. One might choose to kill by positively reinfo

Re: [FRIAM] Friam Today

2018-09-14 Thread Marcus Daniels
Factoid: Facebook has the 45th ranked supercomputer in the world, above Harvard and even the Atomic Weapons Establishment of the United Kingdom. From: Friam on behalf of Frank Wimberly Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Date: Friday, September 14, 2018 at 5:03 PM To

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread Marcus Daniels
Wouldn't a social person aim to mitigate the stupidity, along the lines the of the resistance within the White House? Or is there some reason it is best to bore on ahead with the stupidity? Because it is undemocratic or just because it is a bother? On 9/14/18, 4:53 PM, "Friam on behalf of uǝl

Re: [FRIAM] Friam Today

2018-09-14 Thread Frank Wimberly
Nick, Good essay by Bruni. My wife, who went to Harvard (as you know, Nick), was made physically ill by the theme in The Social Network of the rich kids lording it over others because of their weekend trips to the Hamptons or Newport for coming out parties. Frank On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 1:59 PM

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
Ha! When I was in college, I distracted myself from my failings at electrical engineering ... and my failure to grok topology by reading the University of Chicago's Ethics: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/toc/et/current. One issue had an essay on "Killing versus Letting Die". I remember re

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread Marcus Daniels
Good science fiction would develop characters like David Morse's character in 12 Monkeys as protagonists. On 9/14/18, 4:16 PM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣" wrote: "What then?" Well, my answer is we'll either be aware of our own ability to destroy the world[†] ... or we won't. Anyone who

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
"What then?" Well, my answer is we'll either be aware of our own ability to destroy the world[†] ... or we won't. Anyone who is not already aware of our ability to destroy the world is handicapped. So, those people are in sore need of an educational transformation. So what if such an educatio

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread Marcus Daniels
< But it's irresponsible to ignore the material cause: guns. But those who know me, know I'm an inherent supporter of weapon freedom. Anyone ought to be able to own (and use) pretty much any weapon they want. > Without getting in to the usual arguments of that discussion, my 2-faced position

Re: [FRIAM] Friam Today

2018-09-14 Thread Frank Wimberly
Also this http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/st-john-s-college-plans-major-tuition-decrease/article_ff2c397d-b162-55f1-a0d5-75b25fe34876.html --- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https

Re: [FRIAM] Friam Today

2018-09-14 Thread Frank Wimberly
https://www.sjc.edu/admissions-and-aid/financial-aid/tuition-costs The tuition had been considerably higher, I believe. --- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fran

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread Nick Thompson
Glen, That's extraordinarily kind of you, Glen. I would look forward to any responses you had. For most academic writers ... except the Dennetts and the Pinkers and the Dawkinses ... writing is like dropping gold pieces down an infinitely deep wishing well. You never even hear them hit the

Re: [FRIAM] Friam Today

2018-09-14 Thread Alfredo Covaleda Vélez
Reduction in the tuition. It is a joke. Isn't it? On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 12:33 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > There were only four of us at Friam today. Three of us got there early > and the fourth walked. Also the coffee shop was full of students. This was > apparently all because of a presenta

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
I make a similar argument about gun control. Most of my friends are advocates of stronger regulation. They *think* I'm also an advocate of such. And, objectively, I am because I sometimes parrot a subset of their arguments. E.g. I argue that there are multiple types of cause (perhaps 4: form

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
I'm not sure I've read all 3. I will, though. I *tried* to read this: Animal Sentience: The other-minds problem https://animalstudiesrepository.org/animsent/vol1/iss1/1/ And I've read some of Harnad's other work and came away impressed. But his characterization of the "hard problem" seems

[FRIAM] Friam Today

2018-09-14 Thread Frank Wimberly
There were only four of us at Friam today. Three of us got there early and the fourth walked. Also the coffee shop was full of students. This was apparently all because of a presentation by the College administration about St. John's new tuition policy in which the tuition is being reduced by ten

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread Marcus Daniels
Glen writes: < As for Harris' argument, he's relying on a common trope amongst people like him (including Pinker's recent book, Shermer's standard presentation, etc.). As horrific as the local 7-Eleven parking lot might be, it doesn't compare to what's happening in places like Yemen or Syria

Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

2018-09-14 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
I've always wondered why Peterson equates moral relativism with nihilism. The two seem fundamentally different to me. I'm re-reading this: What is complexity? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12447974 wherein Chris makes the (kindasorta obvious) point that meaning is always relative to