Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in the US from Australia during Covid was like walking through the looking glass

Agreed. Living overseas full time as an American I feel like I am constantly apologizing for something. Also, everyone assumes i know everything about firearms. Joe Dalessandro Sent from ProtonMail Mobile On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:16, Tom Johnson wrote: > Oh, how I wish Americans weren't so

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

All’s well, Frank; all’s well. You must also remember that we took a course together on Laird’s FEELINGs. Your ideas were an enormously helpful whetstone against which the ideas that came

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

Awesome! "Nucleating bad faith". I've looked for a concise phrase for the headlines on hard left aggregator sites for a long time. Now you've given it to me. I don't read them. But I assume hard right sites like Drudge and Breitbart are the same. Despite my nauseatingly regular evocation of the

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

I suppose it is unsurprising that people are intrigued by celebrities like Trump as leaders. A projection of the complex needs of a large population to something much easier to process.Like Hedges rhetoric simplifies a set of tradeoffs (e.g. Kerry's efforts toward energy independence versus

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

Agreed. But like with your "just kidding" comment, venues like newspapers, web logs, and mailing lists are NOT media for interpersonal relationships. They're posts to public fora. And Hedges' hyperbolic message, being a public essay, is a rhetorical post, not an accusation. And, again, this is w

[FRIAM] Bees in one's Bonnet (syndrome)

Nick - You will notice that I did (finally) change the subject line of my latest thread-fray (i.e. Estuarial Stigmergy)...  I was feeling badly for you to have to see your name up over and over on the subject line.  Since I was the one to coin "Nick's Recovery" I will accept some blame for not hel

[FRIAM] The Stigmergic Estuaries of our Fuedal Ids

Marcus - I like your image of an "anger field" and in fact the interpenetration of two (or many really, but identifiably two) anger-fields operating in many ways like an estuary...  I lived a great deal of my life in a cultural estuary and feel that I have benefited significantly from the complex

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

Glen writes: < We see a similar pattern in the "defund the po-lice" rhetoric ... and in that Hedges article. Even if Hedges is hyperbolic, the (neoliberal, accidental) abuse must first be hypothesized and, if found true, identified, before it can be rectified. > A hypothesis itself, certainly

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

OK. But abuse need not be intentional. And I'd argue that most abuse is systemic in this way, habituated patterns that may or may not become unhealthy over time. This would also be true of your breeder example. If there were a time when most people, especially most women, were expected to be bre

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

I'll give a different example. An ostensibly women's group where someone posts an article about how women are disproportionately hurt by not being able to work during the pandemic. IIRC the article was from Science or Nature -- that could have been a coincidence, or some sort of appeal to a

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

For what it's worth, Frank, it's hard for me to even imagine you being abusive to anyone, let alone a friend like Nick. On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 2:45 PM Frank Wimberly wrote: > This is not about lumbago but may not be of general interest. Please read > a little and then stop if it is not a topic

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

Nah, it's not so obvious. One of the recurring themes is the question of why so few women participate [⛧]. It's often written off to confrontation or the typical male pattern of simply waiting until it's your turn to talk, etc. But I think there's something deeper lurking, some style at work. Wh

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

Do not go gently into that good night. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 1:29 PM Frank Wimberly wrote: > I like the image of two old men on their deathbed shaking their fists. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

I like the image of two old men on their deathbed shaking their fists. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 1:17 PM Marcus Daniels wrote: > It amused me that you two were so invested in this argument (that we’ve > witnesse

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

It amused me that you two were so invested in this argument (that we’ve witnessed over the years directly and tangentially), that on your deathbeds you’d be shaking your fists about it. Obviously it was not “abuse”. It seems silly to me because if one want to understand the functioning of the

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

This is not about lumbago but may not be of general interest. Please read a little and then stop if it is not a topic that you care about. I feel like writing a little about the history of my friendship with Nick in response to the accusation that I was abusive to him. During the first year of m

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in the US from Australia during Covid was like walking through the looking glass

I doubt that the "managerial" part of class "professional managerial-class" in his description of liberals is actually accurate.It is just a rhetorical device to suggest "Those [unproductive] people who would presume to tell us what to do." How about replacing "professional managerial-clas

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in the US from Australia during Covid was like walking through the looking glass

Ha! Yes. Nick Cage is a horseshoe talent. He's such a damn good actor that he's a bad actor. On 12/8/20 9:47 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Oooh, I saw this movie! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Humanity_Bureau -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. . .-. . FRIAM Applied

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in the US from Australia during Covid was like walking through the looking glass

Oooh, I saw this movie! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Humanity_Bureau -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 9:37 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in the US from Australia during Covid was like walking through

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

Maybe a bit of a tangent ... and I only read it while in a haze of insomnia at 02:00 this morning. But this seems related: Time Flows Toward Order - Julian Barbour http://nautil.us/issue/93/forerunners/time-flows-toward-order On 12/8/20 9:33 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > What is surprising to me

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in the US from Australia during Covid was like walking through the looking glass

Unfortunately, it's not merely snark that makes the essay suspect. I was down with it as a nice political rant *until* he described the circumstances around Reinoehl. As far as I know, it's an investigative QUESTION whether or not Reinoehl was not only armed, but pointed his gun at the cops. I'm

Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

Nick writes: < The enormous inventiveness and creativity of these experiences, their complex structures, and blooming buzzing confusions, their wildly improbable transitions, are a challenge to any poor monist. Where the hell does the information come from? > It seems to me to the extent o

[FRIAM] Please change the damned thread

Colleaugues, There are many of us long in the tooth on this list, and I think we should adopt some best practices lest the intellectual life of the list become drowned in laments about lumbago. In retrospect, I wish I had informed one of you privately, asked that person to briefly inform t

Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery

Brilliant! This discussion perfectly exhibits the postmodern condition and the flaws of psychodynamic reasoning. On 12/8/20 9:02 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I have to say more than once in my life I have attempted to perform > deconstruction of an anger state and made the subject more angry.

Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery

I have to say more than once in my life I have attempted to perform deconstruction of an anger state and made the subject more angry.I suspect this procedure would result in a similar outcome for about 74 million other potential subjects."I am angry and you better not step in my anger fi

Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery

I was being my own example of the topic... uttering offended/offensive words without any particular meaning or target... > On 12/8/20 9:39 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > What offends you? That I would point it is ridiculous (more so than > offensive) to use the occasion of unease resulting from a

Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery

What offends you? That I would point it is ridiculous (more so than offensive) to use the occasion of unease resulting from a viral infection to make a point about whether Consciousness exists?I just think it is sad that Frank and Nick can't resolve this, because they've apparently been wo

Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery

That sh*t really offends me and I wish you would cut it the h*ell out! On 12/8/20 9:20 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > Nicely circular! You don't have to know/believe the meaning of your words, > for those words to have meaning. I'm particularly fond of how abusers will > say something abhorrent, then ac

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in the US from Australia during Covid was like walking through the looking glass

Fellow (mostly) Liberalish, professionaI-class Elite(sh) FriAMfriends- Ioffer this with a grain of capsaicin-salt to rub in the wound of our modern existential dilemma:  meaning that what with Chris Hedges' familiar depressing snark, not everyone might be able to afford to read the following...  R

Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery

Nicely circular! You don't have to know/believe the meaning of your words, for those words to have meaning. I'm particularly fond of how abusers will say something abhorrent, then act all surprised when victims take offense. The abuser often takes the stance that they were simply joking and the

Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery

I was kidding, of course.. believing the topic to be devoid of meaning, and so more absurd than abusive. -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 8:09 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery It's important, even/especiall

Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery

It's important, even/especially for long-term partners, to reflect on possibly abusive habits. Even if the abused and the abuser *agree* that the habit isn't intentional abuse, an outsider will often *rightly* identify the habit as abusive. On 12/7/20 6:23 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > If you agr

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in the US from Australia during Covid was like walking through the looking glass

One of the commentators spun quite a good turn of phrase. I think I want to write it here so I have a record and can go back and find it when I want it: The pandemic is like a mirror held up to society showing the ugliness of the powerful, the beauty of those trying to fight it, the naivety of

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in the US from Australia during Covid was like walking through the looking glass

It’s enough to make one get up and leave! (Launch in 7 minutes?) https://www.spacex.com/vehicles/starship/index.html From: Friam On Behalf Of David Eric Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 3:54 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Arriving in t