Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-09 Thread Prof David West
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Prof David West > *Sent:* Sunday, March 8, 2020 3:10 AM > *To:* friam@redfish.com &g

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-08 Thread thompnickson2
du/nthompson/ From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 3:10 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation Ignore the software thing — an example of cross-talk between two unrelated conversations that happens bec

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-08 Thread thompnickson2
dfish.com> > On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2020 2:23 AM To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation glen, As a "trained" academic writer I am forced to "

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-08 Thread thompnickson2
<https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:41 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation "tracing ideas to foundations"

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-08 Thread Prof David West
n important message from an >> unimportant one. >> >> As I said, see below: Oh, and dave, what I wrote below is TESTY. I don’t >> realty feel testy, I don’t really feel qualified to be testy. I think the >> rhetoric just got away with me. It has happened before and

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-08 Thread Prof David West
> Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > -Original Message- > From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2020 2:23 AM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epist

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-08 Thread Prof David West
7, 2020 2:15 AM > *To:* friam@redfish.com > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation > > Steve, > > I really hope that I have not advanced any of the three types of false > dichotomy you note. > > I cite "authority" or &q

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread Steven A Smith
in order to > discover the structure of meat.  > >   > > Nick > >   > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread thompnickson2
<https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2020 3:37 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation Oooh fun ... I also st

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread thompnickson2
@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation glen, As a "trained" academic writer I am forced to "justify" every assertion with voluminous footnotes proving some"Eminent Person" had the idea first. [NST===>] I would cal

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread thompnickson2
t Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2020 2:15 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation Steve, I really hope that I have not advanced any of the three types of false dichotomy you note. I cite "authority" or "dead white

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread Prof David West
f Of Prof David West > Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 2:00 AM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation > > thanks Glen, > > I totally agree with you about dead white guys. [Except I have had > face-to-face conversat

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread Prof David West
gt; Your friend , > Nick > > Nicholas Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > -Original Message- > From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread Prof David West
Steve, Your experiences suggest that a visualization can prompt insightful thinking and that is very cool. I also note the problems and issues you raise and do not discount them. I have no reason to believe that my "conception vision" gave me any insights, fundamental or extravagant. I lack th

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread Prof David West
glen, Much of what passes for "scientific visualization" is what you assert, pretty pictures and little else. I have all four of Tufte's books on visualization and find maybe half dozen examples that I think are actually profound and meaningful. The Menard map of Napoleon's invasion and retreat

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread Prof David West
glen, As a "trained" academic writer I am forced to "justify" every assertion with voluminous footnotes proving some"Eminent Person" had the idea first. It was not uncommon to find one of those whose work provided multiple "connection points" and therefore "unified" my work. But that is all cr

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread Prof David West
Steve, I really hope that I have not advanced any of the three types of false dichotomy you note. I cite "authority" or "dead white guys" only because I think they have expressed an idea in a manner far more eloquently than I am able to express it, and my intent is never to say "this is so" bu

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread Prof David West
Frank, it could be either. For trolling I would have to assume a particular form of intent and. like glen or steve pointed out, making that kind of assumption with this group would never occur to me. It could have been an instance of insight like Huxley alludes to. That happens all the time wi

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-07 Thread Prof David West
pnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > -Original Message- > From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2020 8:30 AM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous con

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-06 Thread thompnickson2
u.edu/nthompson/ -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 2:00 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation thanks Glen, I totally agree with you about dead white guys. [Except

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-06 Thread Steven A Smith
Dave - > 1) I am fascinated by the field of scientific visualization, using imagery to > present complex data sets. Recently I "observed" the precise moment of > sperm-egg fertilization. A whole lot was going on inside the egg cell > boundary immediately upon contact (not penetration) with the

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-06 Thread thompnickson2
/ -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 2:00 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation thanks Glen, I totally agree with you about dead white guys. [Except I have had face-to-face

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-06 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
I hate visualization in the same way I hate poetry. In my work, I'm constantly fighting the "kids" who want visualizations for everything. I tell them once they understand the data, then they're free to visualize it any way they see fit ... like your mom telling you to eat your vegetables before

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-06 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
Interesting. I'm skeptical that it *unifies* your work so much as it *abstracts* your work into a fuzzy/vague thing that seems like it unifies your work. That's the risk with unification and what I call Grand Unified Models (GUMs). To produce an actual unification, you have to show the details f

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-06 Thread Prof David West
thanks Glen, I totally agree with you about dead white guys. [Except I have had face-to-face conversations with a couple of them :) ] I reference them not as a source of answers but in an attempt to find some kind of conceptual bridge for a conversation. But that might be totally counterproduct

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-05 Thread thompnickson2
Psychology Clark University thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ? Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 8:59 AM To: FriAM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation It's not pesky f

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-05 Thread thompnickson2
ubject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation Dave - As for me, I'm not irritated with your keeping these discussions going. I *am* irritated with the larger (cross-domain, national/global) discussion of "Truthiness" and the various bimodal fallaci

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-05 Thread Steven A Smith
Dave - As for me, I'm not irritated with your keeping these discussions going.  I *am* irritated with the larger (cross-domain, national/global) discussion of "Truthiness" and the various bimodal fallacies introduced thereby. Science and the Scientific Method, for example, have built into them a

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-05 Thread Frank Wimberly
Dave, Was my memory of my then 7 year-old daughter confusing "oxytocin" and "oxymoron" an instance of trolling or the kind of experience you were alluding to in "He could never, poor fellow, have seen a bunch of flowers shining with their own inner light and all but quivering under the pre3ssure

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-05 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
It's not pesky for me in the slightest. I'm *very* interested. I haven't contributed because it's not clear I have anything to contribute. Maybe I can start with a criticism, though. It's unclear to me why you (or anyone) would delicately flip through crumbling pages of philosophy when there ar

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-05 Thread Prof David West
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > -Original Message- > From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2020 8:30 AM > To: friam@red

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-04 Thread thompnickson2
8:30 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation Nick, We assert "knowledge" all the time. You "know" that is is Friday morning and you need to be on your way to St. John's. Person X "knows" that

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-04 Thread Steven A Smith
ng understanding of what >> we mean by it, if we are to precede. >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> Clark University >> thompnicks...@gmail.com >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >>

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-04 Thread Prof David West
t; Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > -Original Message- > From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 1:48 AM > To: f

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-04 Thread Frank Wimberly
with the very idea of knowledge lie at the core of this > discussion, and we need some sort of working understanding of what we mean > by it, if we are to precede. > > Nicholas Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-03 Thread Prof David West
t; I think problems with the very idea of knowledge lie at the core of this >>> discussion, and we need some sort of working understanding of what we mean >>> by it, if we are to precede. >>> >>> Nicholas Thompson >>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and P

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-03 Thread thompnickson2
/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 8:27 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation >From the web: Aristo

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-03 Thread Frank Wimberly
ion, and we need some sort of working understanding of what we mean >> by it, if we are to precede. >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> Clark University >> thompnicks...@gmail.com >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-03 Thread Frank Wimberly
of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > -----Original Message- > From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 1:48 AM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: [

Re: [FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-03 Thread thompnickson2
ecede. Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 1:48 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: [FRIA

[FRIAM] Acid epistemology - restarting a previous conversation

2020-03-03 Thread Prof David West
Epistemology, loosely speaking, is the “theory of knowing.” What can we know; how do we know we know it; the difference between knowing that, knowing how, and knowing about; and, issues of the “truth” of what we know and/or justifications for thinking we know anything? An associated issue conce