Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon I always find myself confused about how to think about entropy. The article says that gravity is an entropic force. I understand that to mean that it not reducible to lower level forces but to be reducib

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

lrudo...@meganet.net wrote: Glen Ropella asked: What is that ^ symbol between dx^a and dx^b? Merle Lefkoff writes: I thought a tensor is a description of a multi-dimensional space, like stress and strain (what I'm going through right now). Roger Critchlow writes: Working f

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Did Verlinde draw the scrabble metaphor? Or was it just Overbye, the NYT author? From the paper, it's not clear to me that Verlinde was implying that the straightened out (minimum entropy config?) polymer molecule was special in any anthropomorphic sense, just that it was special in the sens

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

I can also recommend Harley Flander's book on Differential Forms ... tom On Jul 14, 2010, at 5:53 AM, Eric Smith wrote: > Hi Glen, > > I believe it's also called a "wedge product". Mike Spivak's tiny but > frustrating but elegant book Calculus on Manifolds, if I remember correctly, > define

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe] > > > > > - Original Message - > From: Roger Critchlow > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Sent: 7/14/2010 12:07:45 AM > Subject: R

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Russell Standish wrote circa 07/14/2010 02:09 PM: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:07:14PM -0600, Roger Critchlow wrote: >> Working from the context, I'd guess: the tensor product between the >> components dxa and dxbof the stress >> energy tensor Tab, but I've never been too sure about >> tensors. >>

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Glen Ropella asked: >What is that ^ symbol between dx^a and dx^b? Roger Critchlow writes: > Working from the context, I'd guess: the tensor >product between the components dxa >and dxbof the stress energy tensor > Tab, but I've never been too sure ' >about tensors. I haven't read the Verlinde p

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe] - Original Message - From: Grant Holland To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: 7/14/2010 7:38:45 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon Verlinde makes the same unfortunate argument

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Coffee Group Sent: 7/14/2010 12:07:45 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon Working from the context, I'd guess: the tensor product between the components dxa and dxbof the stress energy tensor Tab, but I've never been too sure about tensors. I was lost in the in

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Hi Glen, I believe it's also called a "wedge product". Mike Spivak's tiny but frustrating but elegant book Calculus on Manifolds, if I remember correctly, defines these things and explains what they mean in geometric terms. Eric On Jul 13, 2010, at 7:30 PM, glen e. p. ropella wrote:

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Verlinde makes the same unfortunate argument that is made by scores of scientists - even noted thermodynamicsists - about so-called "disorder": namely that certain permutations are "disordered", while other permutations are not. To wit: "Think of the universe as a box of scrabble letters. Ther

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:07:14PM -0600, Roger Critchlow wrote: > Working from the context, I'd guess: the tensor product between the > components dxa and dxbof the stress > energy tensor Tab, but I've never been too sure about > tensors. > Not a tensor product, but an exterior product. It's som

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Wonderful! I love the water/sugar example. -- Russ On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote: > Working from the context, I'd guess: the tensor product between the > components dxa and dxbof the stress > energy tensor Tab, but I've never been too sure about > tensors. > > I was

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Working from the context, I'd guess: the tensor product between the components dxa and dxbof the stress energy tensor Tab, but I've never been too sure about tensors. I was lost in the introduction. The proposition of entropy causing action at a distance reminded me of a notorious demonstration.

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

So, Verlinde lost me in section 4. But I usually try to continue reading even if I don't understand (just like I continue talking about stuff I don't understand ;-). And equation 5.35 (attached) had a surprise for me. What is that ^ symbol between dx^a and dx^b? -- glen e. p. ropella, 971

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

From Carl's post's post (backreaction): In this case however one finds that the "temperature" can be negative and that the "entropy" can decrease without having to do work. Whoa! Definitely relates to complexity babble! -- Owen ==

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Nick, I love it when you talk professor-ese to me. "No more than" = well, I dunno what. I found the article provocative, but if the best physicists don't quite understand what the guy is on about, I needn't feel bad for myself. Pamela "God keep me from ever completing anything. This whole bo

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Herr Prof. Thompson, Would you "reductionally posit that our personalities are emergent? Paul -Original Message- From: Robert J. Cordingley To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Tue, Jul 13, 2010 1:11 pm Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an eme

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Sabine Hossenfelder's summations are fun and interesting and, alas more informative than the nyt article: http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2010/03/gravity-is-entropy-is-gravity-is.html http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2010/07/in-praise-of-black-holes.html Carl On 7/13/10 10:55 AM, glen e. p. ro

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Then for something really complicated (complex?) this article on microbiology/micobiomes made me think I'm just a host for all the millions of symbiotes? Literally your right hand might not know what your left hand is doing. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13micro.html?ref=science Pe

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Roger Critchlow wrote circa 10-07-13 09:55 AM: And if you want to see if the argument confuses you as much as it confuses the physicists: http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0785 So far (section 3.2), I'm getting that same tickle in my lizard brain that I get when I play numerologist. "Do you see? Wh

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Great catch, thanks. Time for a new book? :) -- Owen On Jul 13, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote: > Great food for thought. Gravity might be no more than an emergent phenomenon: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13gravity.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss > > "God keep

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

> > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Pamela McCorduck > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > > Date: 7/13/2010 12:39:41 PM > > Subject: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon > > > > Great food

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

larku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe] > [Original Message] > From: Pamela McCorduck > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Date: 7/13/2010 12:39:41 PM > Subject: [FRIAM] Gravity as an em

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Stephen G will be glad to know too that the physicist featured in the article thinks it might be all thermodynamics. (or should that be quantum thermodynamics?) Robert C On 7/13/10 10:39 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote: Great food for thought. Gravity might be no more than an emergent phenomenon:

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Pamela McCorduck wrote circa 10-07-13 09:39 AM: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13gravity.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss “The end result was that everyone else didn’t understand it either, including people who initially thought that did make some sense to them,” he [Bousso] said in

Re: [FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

And if you want to see if the argument confuses you as much as it confuses the physicists: http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0785 -- rec -- On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote: > Great food for thought. Gravity might be no more than an emergent >

[FRIAM] Gravity as an emergent phenomenon

Great food for thought. Gravity might be no more than an emergent phenomenon: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13gravity.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss "God keep me from ever completing anything. This whole book is but a draft--nay, but the draft of a draft. Oh, Time, Strength, Cash