On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:04 AM, John Griessen wrote:
So, by using .NET you put users of your compilation in an upgrade treadmill
to the benefit of Microsoft.
Nonsense.
This version gives the ability to run gEDA to users of certain Windows versions
who couldn't use it before. And when
On Sep 19, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Chris Malton wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that I need to upload the unmodified sources for
gEDA, pcb, Cygwin and co?
Not quite; be sure that *anyone can get* the exact sources -- be sure to
identify and link to the sources that you used, and upload any
On Sep 19, 2010, at 12:11 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that I need to upload the unmodified
sources for gEDA, pcb, Cygwin and co?
Did you read the license terms for all those packages before
distributing binaries built from them?
For gEDA and PCB, that's exactly
On Sep 19, 2010, at 12:25 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
However, you *can* also simply link to your sources, provided that
you also accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least
three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your
cost of physically performing source
On Sep 19, 2010, at 12:44 PM, John Griessen wrote:
On 09/19/2010 01:33 PM, Windell H. Oskay wrote:
Nothing. Disregard the haters. You've made a genuine and useful
contribution to the gEDA ecosystem-- Nice work, and thank you!
Haters? I was just asking about how universal or not .NET
On Sep 19, 2010, at 12:42 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
So... a copy of the GPL on the web is not legally binding?
The GNU General Public License is a one-sided grant of rights, not a
contract, it is *NOT* legally binding and need not be.
However, if you *choose* to not accept its terms, the US
On Sep 19, 2010, at 12:49 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
Your troll-fu is weak.
Not trolling at all. I've been discussing the GNU GPL officially,
publically, and otherwise for the last 20 years or so - as part of
DJGPP and Cygwin, as a Cygnus/Red Hat employee, and now as part of
gEDA/PCB. Some
On Sep 19, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Bob Paddock wrote:
If you go the written offer route there are several ways that can make
you go broke.
A million people make the request. Same person makes the request every day
etc.
Interesting thought. I'd guess that this is why the license allows you to
On Sep 19, 2010, at 2:18 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
No citation is needed - the GPL is a legal document. Bring it to a
lawyer if you want a legal opinion. You should never rely on the
Internet for legal advice. All we can give you are opinions. Even a
*lawyer* on the Internet can only give
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2010/08/04/shortest-way-to-the-moon/
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On Sep 14, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Andrew Poelstra wrote:
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:20:52PM -0400, Matthew Sager wrote:
[*] We need a better term for drawing layers, since layer means
something specific in PCB design. Or another name for physical
layers. Or something ;-)
How about
I like canvas - it's a more popular idiom than cel.
Indeed it is.
My concern about canvas is that it does not convey a relationship to our
physical layers. In some cases it would be reasonable to expect a canvas
to refer a full layer or even to a stack of layers. IMHO, it would be
beneficial
On Sep 13, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Ouabache Designworks wrote:
On Fri, Sep 03, 2010 at 09:08:25PM -0700, Andrew Poelstra wrote:
XML is far too heavy, agreed, and it's signal-to-noise ratio is
abysmal.
True on both counts and you would never want to handcraft a xml
document.
Why?
On Sep 13, 2010, at 10:46 AM, John Doty wrote:
The gschem format is as expressive as HTML, but having the braces stand alone
on separate lines makes the structure easier to parse with simple tools.
Simple is good.
Your definition of simple is (as usual) very different from mine.
But that is exactly what others have been saying, they are concerned
about the file size they think they would get from XML... I want to
run PCB on my iPad, etc.
File size just means a bigger file to generate/parse. Doesn't affect RAM
use significantly, which is the major limit for small
Sorry, I was not able to follow the whole discussion, but I do not like
your arguments too much. XML may be fine -- if it has big benefits, that
may be much more important than size.
I don't care about XML one way or the other, I was pointing out that the
argument presented against it was
You can't easily parse it with simple tools like awk or sed. That's a
fact.
No, it's not a fact.
It's actually just you expressing your opinion that awk and sed are simple
tools.
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I call the second large, bloat, and ugly.
98 chars vs 134 or 36% bigger for a pin with these mythical formats.
You're making my point. 36% is way under the 900% that I budgeted to show
that it still isn't a big deal in terms of file size-- absolutely
negligible in determining how portable
On Sep 12, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Bob Paddock wrote:
Well, a both-sides silkscreen layer makes little sense.
Actually it does make sense. Think about a transformer with through-hole
pins.
You want the top silk to show the courtyard, for clearances. You want
the bottom silk to show the pin
My latest project has five PCBs designed in gEDA/PCB. One of those oddball
projects that uses PCB layout but no gschem or gnetlist. No netlist at all, in
fact.
http://www.evilmadscientist.com/go/eggbot
A tricky part of this was the mask keepout on two of the boards-- I ended up
drawing a
On Sep 10, 2010, at 8:28 AM, John Griessen wrote:
The black on white rules and logo look great Windell.
I like the idea of an engraver for it -- then it could do promotional
doo-dads and
trophies for club events...
The engraver is pretty neat-- it can make, for example, etched
On Sep 10, 2010, at 10:10 AM, John Griessen wrote:
So, if the engraver vibration is too fuzzy, how about adding force feedback
control
and a rotary tool? The force feedback would let you hold up the weight of
the rotary
tool, and probably help pickup and touch down at the same spots
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 01:31:48AM +0100, Peter Clifton wrote:
PS.. have you tried any of the GL stuff?
http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/trans_poly.png
http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d-1.png
http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d-2.png
The conductors may not be copper. I've even worked with a board that had
two different conductive materials on the same physical layer.
Interesting case. Let's suppose that you have conductors -- say niobium
and copper -- on the same physical layer. Does that have implications for
PCB? I'm
I tried to use the 3D view for regular work a few moths ago (medium
density,
4-layer, analog layout). Turns out, it makes routing/placing more
confusing
than pure 2D vertical view. It is difficult to tell the distance of
objects
on different layers. After all, the physical screen is 2D an
On Sep 7, 2010, at 9:01 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
* Real layer types. Silks, keepouts, docs at least. Maybe anti-draw
or paste.
How about mask keepout layers? I have to manually merge gerbers to get my
negative-tone unmasked regions now. This would be *huge*.
On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Andrew Poelstra wrote:
Sounds good. But I'm worried that by dropping down to basically a vector
drawing, we're going too far. However, given that any decent file format
will let us create PCB objects from geometric shapes, perhaps this is
an unjustified fear.
On Sep 4, 2010, at 4:30 AM, Ineiev wrote:
Hello, DJ;
On 9/4/10, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote:
Our DRC engine could use a complete rewrite. It doesn't get arcs
right, for example.
Could you elaborate on the arcs, please? what it doesn't do?
I've been running into trouble with the
On Sep 4, 2010, at 4:30 AM, Ineiev wrote:
Hello, DJ;
On 9/4/10, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote:
Our DRC engine could use a complete rewrite. It doesn't get arcs
right, for example.
Could you elaborate on the arcs, please? what it doesn't do?
I've been running into trouble with
In gschem you are not even bound to nudges. My default title block is
deliberately just that -- a title block with no fixed frame.
http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/symbols/titleblock/title-block.sym
If I want a frame for printing, I just draw a rectangle that fits the
On Jul 16, 2010, at 9:07 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
Or File-Import from within PCB.
I really would like people to get used to the idea of trying
File-Import *before* resorting to gsch2pcb. I went through all that
effort to replace gsch2pcb with something more user-friendly, and
nobody's using
On Jul 14, 2010, at 7:54 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 7/14/10 10:51 PM, timecop wrote:
I think that the proper place to resolve this issue is in the actual
*licenses,* which as with OSS may vary from permissive to restrictive. I'd
like to see the evolution of at least one OSHW license where
On Jun 15, 2010, at 7:22 PM, timecop wrote:
Maybe it's time to travel into 2010.
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:51 AM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote:
Ok, then. Let's take the key with the windows logo, or AltGr, or the key
with the menu to the right of the right windows key. :-)
My
) presently search the distributors. Does anyone know? There must be
some sort of API that the distributors are providing them, at least privately.
Windell H. Oskay
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No, it is about polluting good engineering with sloppiness.
Aye. To wit: You've been polluting what could otherwise be a good forum
for engineering discussion with seriously sloppy social engineering.
As a non-contributer, you ask for changes whose consequences you do not
understand.
I
John,
I said a number of nice things about you and asked that you stop being
mean to people. That's hardly abominable. If you'd like to keep the
discussion to EDA, that pleases me greatly.
-Windell
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Too large ever to assemble.
Right. Your suggestion is that EVERY SINGLE PERSON should build a full
separate heavy symbol library for EVERY SINGLE PROJECT, and yet a single
community-built database is too large of a concept to even consider.
Rght.
That shows a complete misunderstanding of
A community database would need trillions of symbols when the combinatoric
possibilities are considered. Now how big is the community that's
contributing? There are 41 contributors to gedasymbols. They have
contributed 1392 symbols. That's a measure of the capacity of this
community. Now,
On May 6, 2010, at 6:07 PM, John Doty wrote:
Nobody else has really thought about the magnitude of the problem. I
challenge you to make a list.
You are changing the subject, yet again. This is about you, John.
I encourage people to contribute to gedasymbols. Where is your contribution?
On Apr 22, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Madhusudan Singh wrote:
That was really uncalled for.
Don't take it too hard; Most things that he posts to this list are uncalled for.
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The two projects are able to work together *because* they were
intentionally designed with clean interfaces, and no unnecessary
entanglements. You propose to throw away the very virtue that made the
partnership possible in the first place. Some of us want to keep the tools
open to other
Yes, but that bug report came with a request explicitly asking that it
not be fixed!
Okay, yes it's amusing, but is there really a justifiable reason *not* to
fix it?
It's *not* expected behavior. It looks and feels and acts like a bug.
I wasted quite a bit of time before thinking to
I'm having an issue exporting my board from PCB as a gerber.
Please take a look at this screenshot: http://flickr.com/gp/oskay/L98vvn
The pads look normal-- square to the page --in PCB, but are rotated strangely
when I export as gerber.
The footprint, as it appears in my PCB document is:
On Mar 23, 2010, at 1:19 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
That's really wierd.
The exports are correct, the GUI is wrong - your footprint really does
have oddly rotated pads:
Pad[-6703 -1 -6700 1 ...
That's a dX of 3 and a dY of 2. If you enable thindraw (the | key) it
shows the
I'm not going to stop working on the toporouter (greenlight?) just
because Google didn't fund us. If people keep hassling me, I'll probably
find the time for small commits here and there.. e.g., most of my work
last year was an answer to some scathing criticism from Harry.. I *had*
to do
Also, can anyone think of a new name for the toporouter? There is
already a commercial tool called the 'toporouter', which I don't want
us to be confused with.
How about Awesomerouter? :D
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Haha nice.. I used to route boards by hand, but then I became
awesome instead. True story.
tea - keyboard
I suggest it because (1) it's awesome and (2) it's suggestive of
'autorouter.
Back on topic now, we might get some good hints for future features from
Toporouter (the commercial
As Ales has mentioned, its not the issue of finding money now.. its
finding a continual source of money. Think more like charities that want
a few £ or $ per month, not lump sum donations.
Any reason not to consider a few ads as a long-term solution? Ads are a
well-known, generally
I find adverts generally annoying.
That's fair enough.
There are better alternatives than advertisements to get the website
funded.
Yes and no. I'm certainly willing to chip in, and so is my company.
However, one-time contributions are things need to be negotiated or
processed on a
Doesn't pstoedit already do this, too?
http://www.pstoedit.net/
Are there advantages to these custom versions?
I've wrote some C++ code to convert a DXF to PCB. It is in works for
me
state.
Levente
I've written one as well, in the same state.
http://vivara.net/software/dxftopcb/
I'd
On Mar 1, 2010, at 7:15 PM, Geoff Swan wrote:
What's considered Best Practices for TO-92 packages?
Redesign with SOT-23. Easier to solder, faster than stuffing TO-92.
+1
Yeah, you guys are helpful.
Next up: Q: How do I stop my dog from barking? A: Get a goldfish.
:P
On Mar 1, 2010, at 7:19 PM, timecop wrote:
Why woudl someone use to92 in 2010.
Up to now, it's been because I design soldering kits for beginners. But from
now on, I'll do it just to piss you off.
Why does Don use them? I don't know. Perhaps he has a low-noise JFET that
doesn't come in
Here's one of each. :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oskay/4393096672/sizes/o/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oskay/4393113304/sizes/o/
On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:05 AM, Ales Hvezda wrote:
Hi,
Could somebody please send me some screenshots of gEDA/gaf 1.6.x and/or
PCB running on Mac OSX?
On Feb 27, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Peter Clifton wrote:
Hi,
Have you ever looked at the GL branch of PCB (my repository here:
I'd really *love* to be able to run the latest versions, but I'm afraid that as
a mere mortal, I'm nowhere close to being able to do this. I've tried several
times to
Yes, they're quite good.
These guys are in china. I plan to use them shortly, but can't say if they
are good or not. Prices are very nice :)
http://www.pcbcart.com/
Windell H. Oskay
www.evilmadscientist.com
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On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:39 AM, Dave N6NZ wrote:
Now that will depend on your photochemistry. CO2 laser is not in
the visible spectrum. You'd have to check the sensitivity of the
photo emulsion w.r.t. wavelength. Most litho films are not
sensitive even to red, but do go up into
We have an Epilog. Low-power lasers of this type cannot cut (or even
etch) copper foil, nor can they cut FR4.
You can potentially use it to blast away an etch-resist layer,
however; I've seen several examples of this.
Here is one: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41222
On Jan 20, 2010, at 1:59 AM, timecop wrote:
Seriously its 2010, even hardcore open-source hippies should be able
to afford a decent board house, there are practically no uses for
single-sided-non-pth-boards and the number of any kind of important
components made in through-hole form factor is
It looks like photo mode is working on certain boards of mine and not
others. Does this have to do with layer names or numbers perhaps?
On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:22 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
I must have broken photo-mode when I added mask mode... I'll work on
it.
On Oct 26, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Stuart Brorson wrote:
It may be good to know which version of PCB generated the gerber
file,
which version of gerbv you used to inspect it. It may be even more
helpful to make the source PCB and the gerber file available for
inspection by developers.
ISTR
A few of the boards that I've been working on (in PCB) have generated
gerber files that show errors in gerbv.
The error is Undefined aperture number called out in D code. Looking
at the gerber file, I can find sections that look like the following
excerpt:
G54D18*G54D25*G36*
On Sep 27, 2009, at 5:16 AM, John Doty wrote:
Yes, pcb is not part of gEDA. It is a separate (older) development.
History aside (and like it or not) PCB *is* currently a de facto
member of the extended suite of gEDA programs.
Ignoring this, or claiming otherwise, is frankly absurd.
I
On Jun 25, 2009, at 9:24 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
No, PCB doesn't have a separate paste layer. It just exports the pad
shapes as paste.
What's the command to do this?
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On Jun 25, 2009, at 9:39 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
What's the command to do this?
File-Export
If you export gerber or postscript, you get them by default.
By default is a bit of a stretch.
I mean, holy crap-- I've built dozens of designs and thousands of
circuit boards with PCB, but I have
Go ahead ;-)
Fair enough. But how can one go about making small changes to the
documentation?
The cvs PCB manual doesn't cover export options-- there is no
appropriate section in which to add a little note. (Rewriting the manual
to be an up-to-date reference for the GUI-based end user would
I'm also in Sunnyvale. :)
On Jun 24, 2009, at 6:22 PM, Steven Michalske wrote:
On the Northern California front.
I'm in sunnyvale, CA.
Any other users in the area
On Jun 24, 2009, at 5:08 PM, Anthony Shanks wrote:
Sorry man if you were in Northern California I'd have no problem
Neat-- I'll be there!
(CandyFab will be in the .org pavilion at OSCON.)
On Jun 17, 2009, at 4:00 AM, Stuart Brorson wrote:
Hi --
Just a quick note. As part of the open-source conference OSCON,
Linux Fund
has invited developers and users of the gEDA Toolset to a party!
The party
I've been pretty slack, and have not had much time to put into it, but
I'm not going to stop working on it (please keep hassling me for
progress!).
Yes yes yes! I was at a meeting last night and showed several people your
screenshots. One person said that they would switch from Eagle-- and
On Feb 4, 2009, at 8:19 AM, Mike Jarabek wrote:
Hi All,
DJ, it looks like it's time to add that single sided support to PCB:
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/02/mobius_circuit.html
I just saw this, and could not resist sending it off. Not sure if
the maker
here is on our list or
There's a post on the Make blog today about gEDA, with an open invitation
to comment. Anybody want to lend a voice?
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/02/remixed_drawdio.html
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on-topic plugOur little company, Evil Mad Science LLC (
http://evilmadscience.com/ ) has a similar model-- Most of our products
are open source hardware kits that were designed in gEDA. We're not shy
about it; whenever possible, we point out that the projects were done with
gEDA, and we make the
on them. Pins and pads should not be affected,
since they are stored as parts of the element. Save and then open the
modified file in pcb. Make all layers visible and export eps. This should
everything but the tracks to the EPS file.
- Windell
Windell H. Oskay
Evil Mad Scientist Laboratories
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