oun...@lists.tizen.org] *On Behalf Of *Zhang, Qiang Z
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2013 5:59 PM
> *To:* general@lists.tizen.org
> *Subject:* [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey :
> dropping 32bit linux support
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Developers,
>
&
, which practice the
spirit of open source well.
Thanks
Qiang
From: general-boun...@lists.tizen.org [mailto:general-boun...@lists.tizen.org]
On Behalf Of Zhang, Qiang Z
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 5:59 PM
To: general@lists.tizen.org
Subject: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools
Hi All,
Dropping 32 bit support for realistic technical reasons or after Apple's 64
bit half engineering half marketing success.
I think no need to talk more about why we need 64bit support for general OS
environment. If you really care games and Open GL 3.0 support OK but other
reasons just for
Jan-Simon,
I will create a new thread to talk about the details of qemu issue. Thanks for
your help.
thanks
- jf.ding
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 04:11:10PM +0200, Jan-Simon Möller wrote:
> Hi Jian-feng Ding,
>
> On Tuesday 24 September 2013 20:23:20 Jian-feng Ding wrote:
> > Jan-Simon,
> >
> > Th
Hi Jian-feng Ding,
On Tuesday 24 September 2013 20:23:20 Jian-feng Ding wrote:
> Jan-Simon,
>
> Thank you for your attention. The story of qemu is:
>
> 1. In the building, both OBS and gbs, the scripts will use qemu-arm-static
> to run arm binary inside build env chroot
I know the magic, the OB
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:23:20 +0800 Jian-feng Ding
said:
do you have details on the memory issues in qemu. i vaguely remember issues a
while back to do with the way libraries get mmaped on x86 vs arm and that there
are maybe some fixed mappings that conflict or was it to do with address space
rand
Jan-Simon,
Thank you for your attention. The story of qemu is:
1. In the building, both OBS and gbs, the scripts will use qemu-arm-static to
run arm binary inside build env chroot
2. In the ideal settings, we'd like to run 64bit qemu-arm-statis in 64bit host
system, and the same for 32bit. AND w
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 16:21:08 +0300 Artem Bityutskiy
said:
> Carsten,
>
> I do agree with many of your points. But I really would like to refrain
> from diverging from the main point. Let me try to summarize like this.
>
> The team briefly explained why they would like to drop 32-bit support:
>
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:57:33 +0200 Jan-Simon Möller said:
> >
> > 64bit os's come with a major cost in memory footprint for pointers... it's
> > quite measurable. and that doesn't change the fact that:
> >
> > 1. arm is STILL 32bit and will be for a long time still. if tizen can't be
> > built
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:21:21 -0700 Thiago Macieira
said:
> On segunda-feira, 23 de setembro de 2013 08:53:47, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > imagine if all the engineers and executives etc. at bmw drove fords because
> > "bmw's can't manage to get us to the office without breaking down".
> >
> > we
On 09/23/2013 06:32 PM, Dale Anderson wrote:
> Theres also the fact 'mobile' is relative, given the current progress of
> phone/tablet hardware the need for a desktop is getting rapidly smaller
> even for a development env, given 64bit ARM is only just reaching consumer
> products and the likely ho
Theres also the fact 'mobile' is relative, given the current progress of
phone/tablet hardware the need for a desktop is getting rapidly smaller
even for a development env, given 64bit ARM is only just reaching consumer
products and the likely hood the mobile OS itself will be the development
envir
On segunda-feira, 23 de setembro de 2013 08:30:24, Clark, Joel wrote:
> Tizen is a general purpose OS. It is supposed to work on a wide variety of
> platforms like PC, TV, Automotive, tablet, phone, printer, camera. It has
> everything needed to be a general purpose OS. We do have developers who
General] Tizen platform development tools survey : dropping
32bit linux support
On segunda-feira, 23 de setembro de 2013 08:53:47, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> imagine if all the engineers and executives etc. at bmw drove fords
> because "bmw's can't manage to get us to the of
On segunda-feira, 23 de setembro de 2013 08:53:47, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> imagine if all the engineers and executives etc. at bmw drove fords because
> "bmw's can't manage to get us to the office without breaking down".
>
> we're not building specialized mining equipment. that won't get us to t
On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 15:47 +0200, Jan-Simon Möller wrote:
> On Monday 23 September 2013 13:52:56 Jian-feng Ding wrote:
> > > if the problem is qemu on 32bit x86 emulating arm... mayhaps we should
> > > talk
> > > about that issue itself? i remember there being memory mapping
> > > conflicts/issues
>
> 64bit os's come with a major cost in memory footprint for pointers... it's
> quite measurable. and that doesn't change the fact that:
>
> 1. arm is STILL 32bit and will be for a long time still. if tizen can't be
> built ON an arm platform (which is 32bit) then it can't self-host on arm...
>
On Monday 23 September 2013 13:52:56 Jian-feng Ding wrote:
> > if the problem is qemu on 32bit x86 emulating arm... mayhaps we should
> > talk
> > about that issue itself? i remember there being memory mapping
> > conflicts/issues in doing misc binary emul, but i don't remember the
> > details anym
Carsten,
I do agree with many of your points. But I really would like to refrain
from diverging from the main point. Let me try to summarize like this.
The team briefly explained why they would like to drop 32-bit support:
a) They suspect there are no/very few users, and the survey is about
lear
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:46:48 +0300 Artem Bityutskiy
said:
> On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 19:08 +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:42:34 +0300 Artem Bityutskiy
> > said:
> >
> > > Hi JF,
> > >
> > > there is a lot of confusion in this thread about what are you going to
> > > do
n.org [mailto:general-boun...@lists.tizen.org]
On Behalf Of Jian-feng Ding
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 3:18 AM
To: Artem Bityutskiy; Zhang, Qiang Z
Cc: general@lists.tizen.org
Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey : dropping
32bit linux support
Artem,
Thanks for
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 2:33 AM
To: Carsten Haitzler
Cc: general@lists.tizen.org
Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey : dropping
32bit linux support
Carsten,
All the embarrassings you are talking about just does not exist :)
Current Tizen pkg build is self
On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 19:08 +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:42:34 +0300 Artem Bityutskiy
> said:
>
> > Hi JF,
> >
> > there is a lot of confusion in this thread about what are you going to
> > do and why.
> >
> > And frankly, the announcement is guilty in that. You did n
Why only PC?
-Original Message-
From: Ding, Jian-feng
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 10:55 PM
To: Clark, Joel
Cc: Kok, Auke-jan H; general@lists.tizen.org
Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey : dropping
32bit linux support
Joel,
Whenever we have an
n.org]
On Behalf Of Leon Anavi
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 10:28 PM
To: general@lists.tizen.org
Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey : dropping
32bit linux support
Hi Daniel, Carsten, All,
On 2013-09-23 03:46, Daniel Juyung Seo wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2
Artem,
Thanks for your feedback and clarification. We will update the survey
questions to avoid confusions.
thanks
- jf.ding
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:42:34PM +0300, Artem Bityutskiy wrote:
> Hi JF,
>
> there is a lot of confusion in this thread about what are you going to
> do and why.
>
> A
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:42:34 +0300 Artem Bityutskiy
said:
> Hi JF,
>
> there is a lot of confusion in this thread about what are you going to
> do and why.
>
> And frankly, the announcement is guilty in that. You did not carefully
> and nicely explain what exactly you do, and why exactly, and w
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 17:33:19 +0800 Jian-feng Ding
said:
> Carsten,
>
> All the embarrassings you are talking about just does not exist :)
>
> Current Tizen pkg build is self-hosted, both ARM and IA, both 32bit and
> 64bit.
>
> Current problem we are talking about is the developers' working dis
Hi JF,
there is a lot of confusion in this thread about what are you going to
do and why.
And frankly, the announcement is guilty in that. You did not carefully
and nicely explain what exactly you do, and why exactly, and which users
would be affected and how exactly.
I suggest you guys to come
Carsten,
All the embarrassings you are talking about just does not exist :)
Current Tizen pkg build is self-hosted, both ARM and IA, both 32bit and
64bit.
Current problem we are talking about is the developers' working distro, not
the Tizen runtime:)
thanks
- jf.ding
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 0
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:28:06 +0300 Leon Anavi said:
> Hi Daniel, Carsten, All,
>
> On 2013-09-23 03:46, Daniel Juyung Seo wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Carsten Haitzler
> >> imagine if all the engineers and executives etc. at bmw drove fords
> >> because
> >> "bmw's can't manage to
s hard requirement that
> > > should be tested regularly.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Joel
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: general-boun...@lists.tizen.org
> > > [mailto:general-boun...@lists.tizen.org] On Beha
+1
- jf.ding
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 08:28:06AM +0300, Leon Anavi wrote:
> Hi Daniel, Carsten, All,
>
> On 2013-09-23 03:46, Daniel Juyung Seo wrote:
> >On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Carsten Haitzler
> >>imagine if all the engineers and executives etc. at bmw drove fords
> >>because
> >>"bmw'
eneral-boun...@lists.tizen.org
> > [mailto:general-boun...@lists.tizen.org] On Behalf Of Jian-feng Ding Sent:
> > Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:39 AM To: Kok, Auke-jan H
> > Cc: general@lists.tizen.org
> > Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools surve
feng Ding
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:39 AM
> To: Kok, Auke-jan H
> Cc: general@lists.tizen.org
> Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey :
> dropping 32bit linux support
>
> Hi, Auke
>
> The major reason of 32bit-linux-platform t
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 11:24:06PM +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 17:38:53 +0800 Jian-feng Ding
> said:
>
> dropping 32bit support would be very short-sighted. reasons:
>
> 1. arm support (build on arm NOT x86, x86 qemu).
> 2. x32 (32bit pointers but with 64bit mode ops las
Hi Daniel, Carsten, All,
On 2013-09-23 03:46, Daniel Juyung Seo wrote:
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Carsten Haitzler
imagine if all the engineers and executives etc. at bmw drove fords
because
"bmw's can't manage to get us to the office without breaking down".
Awesome analogy.
I am also
g Ding
> Sent:
> > Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:39 AM To: Kok, Auke-jan H
> > Cc: general@lists.tizen.org
> > Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey :
> > dropping 32bit linux support
> >
> > Hi, Auke
> >
> > The major reaso
3 2:39 AM To: Kok, Auke-jan H
> Cc: general@lists.tizen.org
> Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey :
> dropping 32bit linux support
>
> Hi, Auke
>
> The major reason of 32bit-linux-platform tools support dropping plan is the
> qemu issue:
]
On Behalf Of Jian-feng Ding
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:39 AM
To: Kok, Auke-jan H
Cc: general@lists.tizen.org
Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey : dropping
32bit linux support
Hi, Auke
The major reason of 32bit-linux-platform tools support dropping plan
On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 17:38:53 +0800 Jian-feng Ding
said:
dropping 32bit support would be very short-sighted. reasons:
1. arm support (build on arm NOT x86, x86 qemu).
2. x32 (32bit pointers but with 64bit mode ops last i checked).
if the problem is qemu on 32bit x86 emulating arm... mayhaps we s
Hi, Auke
The major reason of 32bit-linux-platform tools support dropping plan is the
qemu issue: we still have no stable 32bit qemu-static executable for current
Tizen, which is very important for the local build and image creation in 32bit
development systems.
And the future 64bit support of Tiz
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Tomasz Olszak wrote:
>
> I'm opposed to this.
>>
>>
>> 64bit support in Tizen is not yet mainstream at all, as a matter of
>> fact it's barely been implemented in 3.0, and no major release that
>> developers can use yet has happened.
>>
>> Can we maintain 32bit co
I'm opposed to this.
>
> 64bit support in Tizen is not yet mainstream at all, as a matter of
> fact it's barely been implemented in 3.0, and no major release that
> developers can use yet has happened.
>
> Can we maintain 32bit code until most developers have had a major
> release on 64bit? It wil
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 2:59 AM, Zhang, Qiang Z wrote:
> Hi Developers,
>
> This is a simple survey about how many developers still want to use 32bit
> Linux for development.
>
> Currently, platform development tools(gbs/mic) support 32bit/64bit on the
> following 9 distributions:
>
> * Ubuntu 13.
Hi Developers,
This is a simple survey about how many developers still want to use 32bit Linux
for development.
Currently, platform development tools(gbs/mic) support 32bit/64bit on the
following 9 distributions:
* Ubuntu 13.04
* Ubuntu 12.10
* Ubuntu 12.04
* openSUSE 12.3
* openSUSE 12.2
* op
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