On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 23:56:33 -0400
desultory wrote:
> Since when is anyone proposing extirpating man pages on the whole? I am
> simply making the rather simple suggestion that pulling in more packages
> to support presently optional documentation as newly mandated
> documentation when such
On 07/25/19 04:14, Kent Fredric wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 00:10:49 -0400
> desultory wrote:
>
>> The user-side effects pf the proposal in question, were it to become
>> policy, would be that anyone seeking to not install what is presently
>> optional documentation would either be:
>> (1)
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 00:10:49 -0400
desultory wrote:
> The user-side effects pf the proposal in question, were it to become
> policy, would be that anyone seeking to not install what is presently
> optional documentation would either be:
> (1) wasting build time and space (and, depending on
On 07/24/19 10:40, Kent Fredric wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:56:52 -0400
> desultory wrote:
>
>> avoid optional documentation,
>> while the proposal in question explicitly would
>
> I assume you meant 'optional dependencies' here right? :)
>
The user-side effects pf the proposal in
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:56:52 -0400
desultory wrote:
> avoid optional documentation,
> while the proposal in question explicitly would
I assume you meant 'optional dependencies' here right? :)
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On 07/23/19 09:02, Jaco Kroon wrote:
> Hi Michał,
>
> On 2019/07/23 14:39, Michał Górny wrote:
>> On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 00:17 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote:
>>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:38:28 +0200
>>> Gerion Entrup wrote:
>>>
What about a compromise?:
Deliver a (prebuild) manpage as package
[2019-07-21 08:36:41-0700] Christopher Head:
> On July 20, 2019 1:22:39 PM PDT, "Michał Górny" wrote:
> >Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean
> >developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get
> >from one paycheck to another. The usual Gentoo
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 09:04:07PM -0400, Aaron Bauman wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 08:50:29PM +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
> > >
> > > """
> > >
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 00:59 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:39:16 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
>
> > > Failure to do this will mean you're shipping out-dated documentation to
> > > the user.
> >
> > I fail to see how this could happen, unless you'd be using terrible
> >
Hi Michał,
On 2019/07/23 14:39, Michał Górny wrote:
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 00:17 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:38:28 +0200
Gerion Entrup wrote:
What about a compromise?:
Deliver a (prebuild) manpage as package maintainer by default, but keep
a use flag "man-build" (or
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:39:16 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> > Failure to do this will mean you're shipping out-dated documentation to
> > the user.
>
> I fail to see how this could happen, unless you'd be using terrible
> hacks.
What part in my series of steps did you not understand?
All that
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 00:17 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:38:28 +0200
> Gerion Entrup wrote:
>
> > What about a compromise?:
> > Deliver a (prebuild) manpage as package maintainer by default, but keep
> > a use flag "man-build" (or whatever) that builds the man page for
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:38:28 +0200
Gerion Entrup wrote:
> What about a compromise?:
> Deliver a (prebuild) manpage as package maintainer by default, but keep
> a use flag "man-build" (or whatever) that builds the man page for everyone
> (also the maintainer herself) with use of the crazy extra
Am Dienstag, 23. Juli 2019, 04:00:07 CEST schrieb Kent Fredric:
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:51 -0400
> Aaron Bauman wrote:
>
> > 1. I want some documentation
> > 2. It doesn't ship from upstream (without crazy extra deps)
> > 3. Gentoo guy hooked me up and packaged it pre-built with it
> > 4.
On 07/22/19 21:08, Aaron Bauman wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 06:16:24PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean
>>> developers would actually do anything but the bare
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:51 -0400
Aaron Bauman wrote:
> 1. I want some documentation
> 2. It doesn't ship from upstream (without crazy extra deps)
> 3. Gentoo guy hooked me up and packaged it pre-built with it
> 4. Thanks!
The proposal as-stated is:
1. Documentation requires even 1 additional
On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 08:30:03AM +0200, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Wed, 2019-07-17 at 12:09 -0700, Matt Turner wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 6:25 AM Michał Górny wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
> > >
> > > """
> > > Packages must
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 06:16:24PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean
> > developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get
> > from one paycheck to another.
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:04:07 -0400
Aaron Bauman wrote:
> I am going to divert topics here... "freedom"... like freedom to post on a
> mailing list without restriction (e.g. whitelisting) ?
Please don't, this ain't going anywhere.
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On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 08:50:29PM +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
> >
> > """
> > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> > USE=man or
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 09:18:38 -0400
Rich Freeman wrote:
> So,
> there is a relationship between packages that need to have manpages
> pregenerated and the package manager.
My objection re: pollution is more to the point that this propagation
of mechanisms that are inherently "package manager
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 8:35 AM Kent Fredric wrote:
>
> Though I suspect *literally* using USE flags for this as-is might be
> the wrong approach, as that just causes user-side pollution :/
>
Maybe in some other situations this might be true, but as I mentioned
in my previous email, users who DO
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:00:42 +0200
Jaco Kroon wrote:
> USE flag to enable/disable bundled packages. Any packages that gets
> committed with this USE flag goes off to a build server that builds the
> package and prepares an install (without bundled) and then the man pages
> can be scraped
Hi,
I'm with Rich on this one. I trust that like me most of the developers
here earn pay checks from elsewhere and that our time here is either
completely volunteer work, or towards a purpose that suits that of our
employers.
Unless there is a way to automate the building of the associated
On July 20, 2019 1:22:39 PM PDT, "Michał Górny" wrote:
>Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean
>developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get
>from one paycheck to another. The usual Gentoo attitude.
Is my experience as a user really improved if a
On 21-07-2019 23:47:02 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote:
> Yes, yes, I'm suggesting something perverted like a build server or
> system for aggregating built man-pages on gentoo-servers automatically
> as part of CI, that end users can just trivially fetch. But that's just
> one approach, surely, there
On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 22:22:39 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean
> developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get
> from one paycheck to another. The usual Gentoo attitude.
You of course realise putting more demands
On Wed, 2019-07-17 at 12:09 -0700, Matt Turner wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 6:25 AM Michał Górny wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
> >
> > """
> > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> > USE=man or USE=doc).
>
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 1:22 PM Michał Górny wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 23:04 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:28:39 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 20:50 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny
On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 00:33:00 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 18:16 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean
> > > developers would actually do anything but
On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 18:16 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean
> > developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get
> > from one paycheck to another. The
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote:
>
>
> Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean
> developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get
> from one paycheck to another. The usual Gentoo attitude.
>
Not sure where I go to sign up for those
On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 23:04 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:28:39 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 20:50 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > The QA team would like to
On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:28:39 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 20:50 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
> > >
> > > """
> > > Packages must
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 2:28 PM Michał Górny wrote:
>
> Could you please read the proposed policy? It explicitly says you are
> *not* supposed to force extra deps on users but build manpages for them.
>
This seems like a significant increase in maintainer effort compared
to just leaving things
On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 20:50 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
> >
> > """
> > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> > USE=man or
On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
>
> """
> Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages
> and building them
Michał Górny schrieb:
Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags
a. USE flags that disable building both a program and its manpage
I think it seems an implicit goal that this policy should apply to programs
and their manpages?
In that case, I would suggest to at least
On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> What are your comments?
I think there's a situation not covered by this prose which is in a bit
of a grey area as per the intentions behind it, (but I would argue is
otherwise fine).
Some systems ship multiple types of documentation, and
On 2019-07-17 16:56, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> I'm against this.
>
> I seriously doubt maintainers will take the time/effort to pre-build
> and distribute manpages. The end result of this will be additional
> hard dependencies on heavyweight packages.
I second that.
Keep in mind that aside new time
I am also against the part of the proposal about maintainer being
responsible to prebuild the docs.
I'd also like to note that Gentoo users are empowered to locally bump
ebuild versions in this insanely easy way, it almost always works, and
it is really useful at times.
With this policy, this
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:09:47PM +0300, Mart Raudsepp wrote:
> Ühel kenal päeval, K, 17.07.2019 kell 18:05, kirjutas Robin H. Johnson:
> > - significantly increases the version bump requirements (can't simply
> > copy & local-build & quick-test & commit)
> Unrelated to the topic at hand, but I
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 6:25 AM Michał Górny wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
>
> """
> Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> USE=man or USE=doc).
Xorg libraries use USE=doc to control the build (sometimes) and
Ühel kenal päeval, K, 17.07.2019 kell 18:05, kirjutas Robin H. Johnson:
> - significantly increases the version bump requirements (can't simply
> copy & local-build & quick-test & commit)
Unrelated to the topic at hand, but I seriously hope this isn't the
standard we aim for in our version
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 03:25:10PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
>
> """
> Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages
> and building them
On 2019.07.17 14:25, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
>
> """
> Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages
> and building them requires additional
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 9:25 AM Michał Górny wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
>
> """
> Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages
> and building them requires
On Wed, 2019-07-17 at 15:42 +0200, Haelwenn (lanodan) Monnier wrote:
> [2019-07-17 15:25:10+0200] Michał Górny:
> > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
> >
> > """
> > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> > USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream
[2019-07-17 15:25:10+0200] Michał Górny:
> The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
>
> """
> Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
> USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages
> and building them requires additional
Hello,
The QA team would like to introduce the following policy:
"""
Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages
and building them requires additional dependencies, the maintainer
should build them and ship
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