Hello All,
An issue that has been raised informally between Russell (Seitz) and members of
our cloud brightening team, but probably not
mentioned more broadly, is the potentially significant compatibility between
our two SRM geoengineering techniques. Both
schemes require much more research before it will be clear as to whether they
would be useful and safe on a global scale.
If positive conclusions were achieved in both cases, one could imagine the same
dissemination vessels being used, microbubbles being released when the vessels
are not under extensive cloud, and saltwater cloud droplets being released when
they are.
The Rasch et al (2009) paper that I sent round about a week ago, and also the
Bala, Caldeira et al (2010) Cloud Marine Brightening paper indicate that if
seeding of a significant fraction of suitable oceanic cloud occurs, the two
regions of maximum cooling are the North and South poles. It would be
interesting to determine whether the same is true for Bright Water.
Arguments can also be made for joint operation of stratospheric sulphur seeding
and either or both of the tropospheric schemes mentioned above.
Cheers, John.
________________________________________
From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [geoengineering@googlegroups.com] on
behalf of rongretlar...@comcast.net [rongretlar...@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:26 PM
To: Geoengineering
Cc: Thomas Goreau; Russell Seitz; Per Resen Steenstrup
Subject: [geo] Re: Ring of Bright Water?
List (plus three)
The following are three more recent additions to the "Bright Water" dialog
from two of the more active contributing, but non-Geoengineering list members.
I believe all others who have already commented on this topic are list-members.
Others who should be alerted will hopefully have this forwarded to them at
some appropriate time.
It seems that the dialog is going well and testing might proceed even if
Ken's funding might fall through (and I hope it won't) Anyone know of a
plausible different source of test funding?
The right team seems to be assembling.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Goreau" <gor...@bestweb.net>
To: "Russell Seitz" <russellse...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Per Resen Steenstrup" <p...@resen.dk>, "rongretlar...@comcast.net Larson"
<rongretlar...@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:35:37 AM
Subject: Re: Ring of Bright Water?
Yes, that's absolutely right, not only does it get hottest when the water is
calmest, but also light stress exacerbates temperature stress. The question is
if you can power the equipment needed from the kind of output you get. The wave
generator can make either AC or DC power depending on the generator used, and
can have higher energy output per unit area.
On Apr 21, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Russell Seitz wrote:
Because cooling reefs means making bubbles when the sun shines high, solar
power cell power output curves are almost perfectly matched to hydrosol
pumping needs. Coral bleaching is in large measure a fair weather problem
On 21 April 2011 11:47, Thomas Goreau
<gor...@bestweb.net<mailto:gor...@bestweb.net>> wrote:
Dear Ron,
Thanks! I'm replying to all but will get bounced from the Geoengineering list
as I'm not a member.
A couple very quick comments.
I developed the method for accurately predicting coral bleaching from satellite
data some 22 years ago, and since then we have lost most of the coral to high
temperatures (note that we have not yet lost the dead reef structures, those
take longer to fall apart, but they will because the living corals that build
and repair them are largely gone, and most people fail to make this critical
distinction). We have also long shown that coral reefs are the most climate
sensitive ecosystem and will be the first to vanish, along with the major
biodiversity, fisheries, tourism, sand, and shore protection for over 100
countries.
I'm certainly ready to work on testing any serious hope to save them. I've
dived longer and in more places than any coral scientist, and have the world's
largest underwater photo collection from the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s (taken by
my grandfather and father) so I have a pretty good idea of how they used to be
pretty much everywhere.
But I think Russell can confirm that the key is making microbubbles, and also
finding a way to stabilize them. That may not be so easy with photovoltaics as
it may require special pumps and bubbling apparatus? He knows infinitely more
about this.
Also a better way to power such projects may be using wave power generators.
I'm working closely with a Danish group that is about to release a new
generation of small, simple wave generators that can make up to a kilowatt per
square meter in waves only 5-10 cm high. That will allow power to be made in
most places most of the time, although it won't work in flat calm periods.
However use of batteries to store night time generated energy could provide a
buffer over calm periods. I'm including Per Resen Steenstrup from the wave
generator group on the cc list (sorry Per, you'll need to read the thread below
to see where this is coming from).
Best wishes,
Tom
On Apr 21, 2011, at 11:14 AM,
rongretlar...@comcast.net<mailto:rongretlar...@comcast.net> wrote:
Oliver, Russell, Tom etal (and adding the Geoegineering list and Ken)
[Note to new cc additions. There has been some off-list discussion as
indicated by the addressee list to which I am responding.. In part, this is an
attempt to bring that dialog on-list. Apologies for a few cross-listings.].
<snip a lot that was sent earlier today to everyone receiving this>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"geoengineering" group.
To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
________________________________________
From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [geoengineering@googlegroups.com] on
behalf of rongretlar...@comcast.net [rongretlar...@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:26 PM
To: Geoengineering
Cc: Thomas Goreau; Russell Seitz; Per Resen Steenstrup
Subject: [geo] Re: Ring of Bright Water?
List (plus three)
The following are three more recent additions to the "Bright Water" dialog
from two of the more active contributing, but non-Geoengineering list members.
I believe all others who have already commented on this topic are list-members.
Others who should be alerted will hopefully have this forwarded to them at
some appropriate time.
It seems that the dialog is going well and testing might proceed even if
Ken's funding might fall through (and I hope it won't) Anyone know of a
plausible different source of test funding?
The right team seems to be assembling.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Goreau" <gor...@bestweb.net>
To: "Russell Seitz" <russellse...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Per Resen Steenstrup" <p...@resen.dk>, "rongretlar...@comcast.net Larson"
<rongretlar...@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:35:37 AM
Subject: Re: Ring of Bright Water?
Yes, that's absolutely right, not only does it get hottest when the water is
calmest, but also light stress exacerbates temperature stress. The question is
if you can power the equipment needed from the kind of output you get. The wave
generator can make either AC or DC power depending on the generator used, and
can have higher energy output per unit area.
On Apr 21, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Russell Seitz wrote:
Because cooling reefs means making bubbles when the sun shines high, solar
power cell power output curves are almost perfectly matched to hydrosol
pumping needs. Coral bleaching is in large measure a fair weather problem
On 21 April 2011 11:47, Thomas Goreau
<gor...@bestweb.net<mailto:gor...@bestweb.net>> wrote:
Dear Ron,
Thanks! I'm replying to all but will get bounced from the Geoengineering list
as I'm not a member.
A couple very quick comments.
I developed the method for accurately predicting coral bleaching from satellite
data some 22 years ago, and since then we have lost most of the coral to high
temperatures (note that we have not yet lost the dead reef structures, those
take longer to fall apart, but they will because the living corals that build
and repair them are largely gone, and most people fail to make this critical
distinction). We have also long shown that coral reefs are the most climate
sensitive ecosystem and will be the first to vanish, along with the major
biodiversity, fisheries, tourism, sand, and shore protection for over 100
countries.
I'm certainly ready to work on testing any serious hope to save them. I've
dived longer and in more places than any coral scientist, and have the world's
largest underwater photo collection from the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s (taken by
my grandfather and father) so I have a pretty good idea of how they used to be
pretty much everywhere.
But I think Russell can confirm that the key is making microbubbles, and also
finding a way to stabilize them. That may not be so easy with photovoltaics as
it may require special pumps and bubbling apparatus? He knows infinitely more
about this.
Also a better way to power such projects may be using wave power generators.
I'm working closely with a Danish group that is about to release a new
generation of small, simple wave generators that can make up to a kilowatt per
square meter in waves only 5-10 cm high. That will allow power to be made in
most places most of the time, although it won't work in flat calm periods.
However use of batteries to store night time generated energy could provide a
buffer over calm periods. I'm including Per Resen Steenstrup from the wave
generator group on the cc list (sorry Per, you'll need to read the thread below
to see where this is coming from).
Best wishes,
Tom
On Apr 21, 2011, at 11:14 AM,
rongretlar...@comcast.net<mailto:rongretlar...@comcast.net> wrote:
Oliver, Russell, Tom etal (and adding the Geoegineering list and Ken)
[Note to new cc additions. There has been some off-list discussion as
indicated by the addressee list to which I am responding.. In part, this is an
attempt to bring that dialog on-list. Apologies for a few cross-listings.].
<snip a lot that was sent earlier today to everyone receiving this>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"geoengineering" group.
To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"geoengineering" group.
To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
