Re: [geo] Re: China could move first to geoengineer the climate

2013-05-06 Thread Gregory Benford
Mr Hamilton: I don't think it's personal abuse to point out that you oppose research in what may (probably will) be desperately needed in a decade or two. As several here point out, there's a clear present danger in the Arctic. This will worsen and you will have no solution at all. Perhaps you th

Re: [geo] Re: China could move first to geoengineer the climate

2013-05-06 Thread John Nissen
Hi Lou, You say it boils down to timing and who's suffering. The assumption from people like Clive Hamilton, who are anti-geoengineering, is that the crisis is some time in the future. But he does not consider the situation in the Arctic where the sea ice is in a death spiral, with repercussions

Re: [geo] Re: China could move first to geoengineer the climate

2013-05-04 Thread Lou Grinzo
I think that this situation comes down to timing and who's suffering. If we're talking about a scenario in which we start to take action fairly soon, i.e. before the truly horrific impacts begin, then I would contend that there's still a very high probability of moral hazard; some countries won

Re: [geo] Re: China could move first to geoengineer the climate

2013-05-04 Thread Andrew Lockley
See below a response to the Benford ad hominem from a member. I think Benford could have chosen his wording better. Lou's original point about moral hazard doesn't seem to be supported by empirical studies. At least two published studies, 1 done by NERC, plus my own research (in revision), have de

Re: [geo] Re: China could move first to geoengineer the climate

2013-05-03 Thread Gregory Benford
"...to cause political leaders to weaken even further their commitment to Plan A..." There is little or no commitment. Hamilton shouldn't be taken seriously; just another frightmonger. Gregory Benford On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Lou Grinzo wrote: > When Hamilton says, "One of the foremost

[geo] Re: China could move first to geoengineer the climate

2013-05-03 Thread Lou Grinzo
When Hamilton says, "One of the foremost is of course that it’s likely to cause political leaders to weaken even further their commitment to Plan A", I think he's pointing to a danger just as great as the risk that we'll screw this up, e.g. by triggering nasty, unforeseen side effects. The only

[geo] Re: China could move first to geoengineer the climate

2013-04-30 Thread Russell Seitz
Clive seems increasingly bent on becoming the Helen Caldicott of the Climate Wars. On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:54:24 AM UTC-4, andrewjlockley wrote: > > http://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/5952 > > Clive Hamilton is professor of public ethics at Australia’s Charles Sturt > Unive