On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 04:15:12PM -0800, Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
> Look at Munich: they passed a law, and presto, transition complete. That's
> the
> way to do it. Sweet-talking clueless masses ain't it, all it does is it
> dilutes the message and makes nonfree software appear more benign
> than
Zlatan, it is not the word that is forbidden, at all. And some
articles on FSF websites are obviously 6 years old, older then Free
System Distribution Guidelines.
It is about what a Free System shall promote, not what users shall
promote. As I told you free system is like teacher, users are
studen
Dear Zlatan,
On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:25:18AM +0100, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> > I am user, so it is very user friendly to me. The sources, with the
> > build are just 12 MB, that is also very user friendly, considering,
> > that Internet connection in Africa is not as good as yours. Even
> > comp
Le vendredi 11 novembre 2016 à 05:50 +0300, Dmitry Alexandrov a écrit :
> > > > > > Nowhere in there is "open source" mentioned alone and carelessly
like you depict it to be. It's always "Free software" or
"Free/Libre and Open-Source". There is no issue with that.
>
> May I point out the page wher
> Nowhere in there is "open source" mentioned alone and carelessly like
> you depict it to be. It's always "Free software" or "Free/Libre and
> Open-Source". There is no issue with that.
May I point out the page where it is:
“Even if they are “part” of an open-source program, blobs are no less
d
Le jeudi 10 novembre 2016 à 23:32 +0300, Jean Louis a écrit :
[...]
> when you change it, [...] say you changed it,
[...]
I detailed (elsewhere in the thread) the most significant changes,
and I explained why I am not going to be sending you a press release
everytime someone does a minute adjustme
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 23:01:46 Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 11/10/2016 09:46 PM, Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
> > Your summary of this thread could hardly be less correct. We already
> > identified at least one problem with the OS itself: the presence of the
> > stock firefox. No one is up
Was tempted to reply but didn't want to make it public, so here is PM to you
On 11/11/2016 12:38 AM, Matt Lee wrote:
There are lots of alternatives to proprietary software listed here:
http://www.fsf.org/working-together/moving -- for both OS X and
Windows users.
One does not simply use forb
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Robert Call (Bob) wrote:
> Is there a mailing list? How can one get involved with this project?
Hey Bob -- we have a list, not public yet. But I'll add you :) We have
a lot to be done.
There are lots of alternatives to proprietary software listed here:
http://www.fsf.org/working-together/moving -- for both OS X and
Windows users.
(sorry for another off-topic post)
On 11/11/2016 12:09 AM, Jean Louis wrote:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:49:35PM +0100, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
On 11/10/2016 11:26 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 05:09:52PM -0500, Matt Lee wrote:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Jean Louis wrote
On Thu, 2016-11-10 at 16:01 -0500, Matt Lee wrote:
> It's not obvious that gNewSense is similar to us. I just struggled to
> download an ISO and found it running a 3.2 kernel. Our project is
> based on modern Debian releases with minimal changes. Perhaps there's
> more to gNewSense that I'm missing
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:49:35PM +0100, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
>
>
> On 11/10/2016 11:26 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 05:09:52PM -0500, Matt Lee wrote:
> > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am glad for that. Personally, I am avoiding it
On 11/10/2016 11:26 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 05:09:52PM -0500, Matt Lee wrote:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
I am glad for that. Personally, I am avoiding it due to larger size,
and compiling taking time. I am using now Dillo, Xombrero, uzbl and
sur
> In regards to your website, now the website is promoting both Puri.sm
> and PureOS. And on many pages, you have "alternatives" to proprietary
> software, references to FLOSS and FOSS, and others.
[Just a curious passer-by here.]
Sorry, what’s wrong with having a page listed free / libre replace
Ha ha ha, that is right and funny.
There is not alternative to freedom, and freedom is not alternative to
jail (proprietary software).
Maybe the difference is that fsf.org is not a Free System
Distribution, and Stallman.org is also not a Free System
Distribution. It is now for webmasters to corre
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 05:09:52PM -0500, Matt Lee wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
>
> > I am glad for that. Personally, I am avoiding it due to larger size,
> > and compiling taking time. I am using now Dillo, Xombrero, uzbl and
> > surf.
> >
> > uzbl is in particular
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:01:46PM +0100, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> On 11/10/2016 09:46 PM, Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
> > Your summary of this thread could hardly be less correct. We already
> > identified at least one problem with the OS itself: the presence of the
> > stock
> > firefox. No one is upse
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
> I am glad for that. Personally, I am avoiding it due to larger size,
> and compiling taking time. I am using now Dillo, Xombrero, uzbl and
> surf.
>
> uzbl is in particular very usable.
I'm not going to ask our users to use one of those.
uzbl
Dear Jeff,
I am actually visiting your website. So, no, I am not looking what you
have done 2 years ago. I click on your pages. I think you should be
endorsed, even if you have tasks to do yet, to adopt the software, and
adopt the teaching on your websites (alternatives to proprietary,
FLOSS, FOSS
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 04:49:07PM -0500, Matt Lee wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> I'm not sure that link on the LP wiki is valid anymore (it's also
> broken) -- Chromium may have some issues but I don't believe its
> proprietary. I think that was fixed.
I am glad for that. Personally, I am avoiding it due
Hi,
On 11/10/2016 09:46 PM, Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
Your summary of this thread could hardly be less correct. We already
identified at least one problem with the OS itself: the presence of the stock
firefox. No one is upset at Purism for putting PureOS on their hardware, but
we suggested a clear
On 11/10/2016 03:34 PM, Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
> Actually, if I were you, I would not give up on referencing your hardware
> products from the PureOS website. If Trisquel can recommend computers with
> non-free BIOS (they do) for use with their OS, you should be able to do so as
> well. I think y
Le jeudi 10 novembre 2016 à 10:26 +0200, Jean Louis a écrit :
> > OK, to be really pure, when you change the page, that it does
not promote your products, than simply say so.
Jean Louis, we've been incrementally revising and improving the website
contents for months in preparation for this. Just o
Thanks.
I'm not sure that link on the LP wiki is valid anymore (it's also
broken) -- Chromium may have some issues but I don't believe its
proprietary. I think that was fixed.
Maybe this link is of interest to Skeleton:
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines
And in regards to Chromium:
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines#chromium-b
Matt Lee writes:
> So this discussion of PureOS has forced us to raise our heads a little.
>
> We're working on a distribution based on Debian also, ours is called
> Skeleton GNU/Linux. Please note, we are firmly committed to this name
> and branding, even if our logo is very temporary :)
>
> We
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 01:03:51PM -0800, Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
> On Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:13:56 Jaromil wrote:
> > Now to respond to a recently raised concern about Trisquel's list of
> > supported hardware, I believe this is different from offering a
> > *medium of distribution*. While
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:13:56 Jaromil wrote:
> Now to respond to a recently raised concern about Trisquel's list of
> supported hardware, I believe this is different from offering a
> *medium of distribution*. While Trisquel uses ISO files and CD/DVD
> supports as mediums of distribution,
It's not obvious that gNewSense is similar to us. I just struggled to
download an ISO and found it running a 3.2 kernel. Our project is
based on modern Debian releases with minimal changes. Perhaps there's
more to gNewSense that I'm missing and their website is just having a
tough time today.
I wa
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 23:32:14 +0300
Jean Louis wrote:
> It is just a matter of agreement. You do not agree to me and my
> viewpoints on "open source", in order to become endorsed
> distribution.
We've taken your viewpoints into consideration. Unfortunately, this
time, I don't think that they've g
Your summary of this thread could hardly be less correct. We already
identified at least one problem with the OS itself: the presence of the stock
firefox. No one is upset at Purism for putting PureOS on their hardware, but
we suggested a clear separation between the two fronts. As John Sullivan
Hello Francois,
Thank you for your short story. Interesting, and I am glad you have
recognized values in free software.
Myself, I am not opposing you or anyone to use the simple word. I am
rather specific, and accurate, just when you program, you want to be
specific, or the end result will not be
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 17:26:26 Francois Téchené wrote:
> That being said about the computers we sell, please let us know the
> exact steps we need to achieve to get endorsed?
>
> From my understanding here are the steps :
>
> - Disable the ability to use extensions in our version of Fire
It is just a matter of agreement. You do not agree to me and my
viewpoints on "open source", in order to become endorsed
distribution.
In regards to "alternatives", before 2 days I have reviewed your
website. And I found pointers on first page to PureOS, it does not
matter. You changed it, or some
John Sullivan writes:
> such a connection. If Canonical, for example, wanted to produce
> something based on Ubuntu that met the FSDG criteria, we would certainly
> consider that.
>
(This was actually a poor example on my part, because we *are* concerned
about confusion between endorsed and not
On 11/10/2016 06:51 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
>
> To me you sound very reasonable.
>
> In regards to your website, now the website is promoting both Puri.sm
> and PureOS. And on many pages, you have "alternatives" to proprietary
> software, references to FLOSS and FOSS, and others.
>
> By having a
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 22:13:42 +0200 Jean Louis wrote
> Oh, but should I care what other people think, do, choose?
Yes, you should, because you want them to know about their essential freedoms
and join the free software movement, for their own good.
> I am not controlling anyone
Tru
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 09:46:25PM +0200, Dima Krasner wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 21:32:11 +0200 Jean Louis wrote
>
>
> > I could not care less.
>
> Bad attitude, there you have it.
Oh, but should I care what other people think, do, choose? I am not
controlling anyone. People cho
Jean Louis,
You keep assuming we don't understand the terminology. We know full
well the distinction between Free/Libre/Open-Source/Gratis/etc. Most of
us have been involved in the Free Software community for over 1-2
decades.
The thing is, if we were trying to convince only extremely hardcore
pe
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 21:32:11 +0200 Jean Louis wrote
> I could not care less.
Bad attitude, there you have it.
You know Dima, I cannot argument to generalism: "many people",
"developers run away", "bunch of stubborn people", etc. Just bring up
specific arguments. I did not see one.
When trying to judge about the group and its efforts, I am always
watching on results, and not what appeals to me personally o
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 03:20:24PM +0530, Anoop C S wrote:
> An interesting read:
> https://opensource.com/business/16/11/open-source-not-free-software
His opinions, indeed interesting. But who won and all? It is not a
question, both communities of "open source" and free software, often
play nicel
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 19:09:55 +0200 Jean Louis wrote
>I really don't see strictness there. And I fully understand that
>somebody who did not research the definitions of words, and in general
>about free software -- that such person may get impression of
>strictness. It requires learni
So this discussion of PureOS has forced us to raise our heads a little.
We're working on a distribution based on Debian also, ours is called
Skeleton GNU/Linux. Please note, we are firmly committed to this name
and branding, even if our logo is very temporary :)
We have an early website up at htt
I appreciate the concerns raised about the nonfree boot firmware on
machines sold by the same company leading development of PureOS. That is
a concern for RYF (and is a concern generally, of course, we want all
machines to be all free).
It is not a concern for FSDG endorsement, except insofar as m
To me you sound very reasonable.
In regards to your website, now the website is promoting both Puri.sm
and PureOS. And on many pages, you have "alternatives" to proprietary
software, references to FLOSS and FOSS, and others.
By having a separate website, with more proper terminology, you are
qui
Ohh, Dima:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 04:58:44PM +0200, Dima Krasner wrote:
> IMHO, the excessive strictness reflected in the FSDG certification
> process is the root of many problems in the free software world and
> especially those that involve the FSF. It won't be very hard to
> demonstrate that m
Hello,
My name is François Téchené, I am director of creative at Purism. I am
also co-founder of the Ethic Cinema organization (ethiccinema.org) which
promotes free cinematographic art.
I have been reading through this discussion and I can understand the
point of view of the FSF. I can also under
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 16:15:09 +0200 Jeff F. wrote
> Le jeudi 10 novembre 2016 à 9:00 -0500, Julie Marchant a écrit :
> [...]
>
> There is absolutely no part of
> https://gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.en.html
> ...that says that a distro website cannot be
On 11/10/2016 09:15 AM, Jeff F. wrote:
> It _is_ "styled differently" now. That it wasn't before was a technical
> issue as a result of redoing the whole website (and before that, it was
> a technical limitation).
It's not styled distinctly. It's a slight variation of the same style of
puri.sm. He
Le jeudi 10 novembre 2016 à 9:00 -0500, Julie Marchant a écrit :
[...]
> If the OS just had its own website, styled differently from the
> website selling the laptops to ensure that the separation is
> thorough, I don't think anyone would have an objection.
[...]
It _is_ "styled differently" now.
An interesting read:
https://opensource.com/business/16/11/open-source-not-free-software
On Thu, 2016-11-10 at 12:41 +0300, Jean Louis wrote:
> According to Wikipedia Article: Free and open-source software on:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software
>
> the word "FLOSS" o
On 11/10/2016 08:14 AM, Riley Baird wrote:
> The key thing which I am understanding from following this thread is
> that Purism wants to get PureOS FSDG-certified. Nobody can see any
> problem with the OS, but they're upset that Purism is putting the OS
> onto hardware that has a non-free BIOS.
No
On 11/10/2016 02:11 PM, Julie Marchant wrote:
On 11/10/2016 07:33 AM, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
I am neglecting answers which want to steer company's business decisions
and water discussion into hardware and not to OS certification.
Nobody has raised objections to PureOS being pre-installed on im
The key thing which I am understanding from following this thread is
that Purism wants to get PureOS FSDG-certified. Nobody can see any
problem with the OS, but they're upset that Purism is putting the OS
onto hardware that has a non-free BIOS.
>From a business perspective, selling only hardware w
On 11/10/2016 07:33 AM, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> I am neglecting answers which want to steer company's business decisions
> and water discussion into hardware and not to OS certification.
Nobody has raised objections to PureOS being pre-installed on imperfect
systems. What they have raised objectio
On 11/10/2016 03:34 AM, hellekin wrote:
> As suggested, your best bet now that the whole discussion is ingrained
> with LibreM notebooks, is to find a replacement chip for the BIOS that's
> compatible with Libreboot. I gather this is not at all possible, and
> you're still working on having the ma
On 11/10/2016 12:13 PM, Jaromil wrote:
dear Ivan,
On Wed, 09 Nov 2016, Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
Zlatan, you should probably try to get this sorted out through the
official channels, and cite the Trisquel's supported laptop list as
an example.
it can't get "more official" than this, really. u
Hi,
On 11/10/2016 09:34 AM, hellekin wrote:
On 11/09/2016 01:43 AM, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
Hi all (again),
we are restarting the process of getting PureOS as FSF endorsed OS. We
built new infrastructure and released alpha 2 image publicly so we want
to march together on this road with you and
dear Ivan,
On Wed, 09 Nov 2016, Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
> Zlatan, you should probably try to get this sorted out through the
> official channels, and cite the Trisquel's supported laptop list as
> an example.
it can't get "more official" than this, really. up to now Zlatan has
been negating mos
On Wed, 09 Nov 2016, Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 09, 2016 14:19:21 Ivan Zaigralin wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 10, 2016 08:51:14 Riley Baird wrote:
> > > Should Trisquel be able to create a list of computers with
> > > compatible hardware?
there is such a list all 100% fre
According to Wikipedia Article: Free and open-source software on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software
the word "FLOSS" originates from Mr. Rishab Ghosh and his Survey and
Study, that may be found here:
http://flossproject.merit.unu.edu/
Where he himself, is making it cl
On 11/09/2016 01:43 AM, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> Hi all (again),
>
> we are restarting the process of getting PureOS as FSF endorsed OS. We
> built new infrastructure and released alpha 2 image publicly so we want
> to march together on this road with you and see the final release of
> PureOS 3.0 a
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 01:28:53AM -0500, Jeff F. wrote:
> > So: Any hardware, containing and kind of software inside, and
> > recommended by free system distributions shall be compatible with
> > Free System Distribution Guidelines. This way, blobs, firmware, non-
> > free software in such hardwar
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