* Jacob Bachmeyer [2021-03-17 05:16]:
> Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> >2. Browsers do not offer POSIX API to JS/WebAssembly for very
> > goodreasons.
> >
> > The other issue is that it wouldn't really be an operating system, if
> > it runs in a web browser. Which kinda is the whol point
* Jacob Bachmeyer [2021-03-17 05:09]:
> Jean Louis wrote:
> > * Jacob Bachmeyer [2021-03-16 10:30]:
> > >3. Web apps stored on "the cloud" are bad because they often do not
> > > respect the user's freedoms, as even if the software is under Free license
> > > terms, technical issues can make
* Alfred M. Szmidt [2021-03-16 21:12]:
>Webassembly runs in the browser, I click on the URL and
>application is in the browser,
>
> And thats the problem. How do you check that the program you just ran
> (pretense) is free software?
In that particular example I have been checking progr
Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
2. Browsers do not offer POSIX API to JS/WebAssembly for very good
reasons.
The other issue is that it wouldn't really be an operating system, if
it runs in a web browser. Which kinda is the whol point of the GNU
project. :-)
The GNU project also provide
Jean Louis wrote:
* Jacob Bachmeyer [2021-03-16 10:30]:
3. Web apps stored on "the cloud" are bad because they often do not
respect the user's freedoms, as even if the software is under Free license
terms, technical issues can make running a modified version difficult or
impossible.
[...] I click on the URL and application is in the browser ...
I think that sentence sums up the overall problem.
In Emacs, since you gave that as an example, when you install a
package, the list is curated. Same with your GNU/Linux system. When
you copy a snippet of Emacs lisp code, you wil
It is free software and specific use example. In those examples I
cannot see anything bad.
You show one example, when the majority do not follow that example.
It is the overal practise of how "web applications" work that is the
problem, not unicorn instances that just happen to be OK. Javas
Webassembly runs in the browser, I click on the URL and
application is in the browser,
And thats the problem. How do you check that the program you just ran
(pretense) is free software?
When you download something, you have not executed the program yet,
and can make an informed decision
* Alfred M. Szmidt [2021-03-16 19:11]:
> Nobody has argued that there are no other models where
> Javascrip/Webassembly could be used in an ethical fashion, but a
> discussion that talks about anything, and everything will end up in
> nothing.
>
> The way that Javascript, and Webassembly is inten
* Alfred M. Szmidt [2021-03-16 20:17]:
>I have downloaded so much software in last 24 hours as I was
>installing new OS (Parabola), so I have downloaded it from some server
>and I run it.
>
> How is that related the topic of Javascript / Webassembly and porting
> the GNU system to it?
I have downloaded so much software in last 24 hours as I was
installing new OS (Parabola), so I have downloaded it from some server
and I run it.
How is that related the topic of Javascript / Webassembly and porting
the GNU system to it? How is this similar to how Javascript /
Webassembl
2. Browsers do not offer POSIX API to JS/WebAssembly for very good
reasons.
The other issue is that it wouldn't really be an operating system, if
it runs in a web browser. Which kinda is the whol point of the GNU
project. :-)
3. Web apps stored on "the cloud" are bad because
Please use a kinder tone on this list, your language is simply not
acceptable here.
Nobody has argued that there are no other models where
Javascrip/Webassembly could be used in an ethical fashion, but a
discussion that talks about anything, and everything will end up in
nothing.
The way that Javascript, and Webassembly is intended to be use is the
problem.
>Or collaborative PDF annotation environment:
>https://pspdfkit.com/guides/web/current/pspdfkit-for-web/getting-started/
This reference below is most probably not free software, I have assumed it to
be so as I found reference on Github in the collection of various free software
reference, mis
* Jacob Bachmeyer [2021-03-16 10:30]:
>3. Web apps stored on "the cloud" are bad because they often do not
> respect the user's freedoms, as even if the software is under Free license
> terms, technical issues can make running a modified version difficult or
> impossible.
Just because there
* aviva [2021-03-16 05:55]:
> On 3/15/21 6:26 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
> > That is one good example. You can edit notes and save it, all locally,
> > it works offline.
>
> And why is that good? Are you lacking a shell?
At certain situations on travel I am lacking a computer and I use
browser to ha
* shulie [2021-03-16 11:22]:
> On 3/15/21 6:26 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
> > If I download software into Emacs, I run it in Emacs.
>
> And you need to be told that emacs is not compatable to web borwser ..
> but if EMACS was, it wouldl download random code from an unknown source
> and run an entire O
> On 16. Mar 2021, at 06:07, Jacob Bachmeyer wrote:
>
> Colby Russell wrote:
>> On 3/15/21 9:02 PM, Jacob Bachmeyer wrote:
> [...]
>> > One of the rationales presented to me (off-list) for this was that a
>> > WebAssembly port of GNU could be run as a web app and therefore be
>> > "always up-to
On 3/16/21 1:07 AM, Jacob Bachmeyer wrote:
>
> I am beginning to suspect that we have all been trolled
yah think?
On 3/15/21 4:26 PM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> square Richard's call to action
>to replace non-free JS with free JS
BTW - in this case, Richard is talking about the little snippet garbage
that people use as large scale widgets for web bowsers. THOSE things,
since you are running javascript
On 3/15/21 6:26 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
> If I download software into Emacs, I run it in Emacs.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010302031109/http://crackmonkey.org/fanmail.html#CHAPTER1
On 3/15/21 4:26 PM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> Javascript isn't bad,
Yes - it is pretty bad which is why we need to do this WHOLE end run
around it to protect ourselves. Turning the browser into apware,
frankly sucks, It is used for tracking, fingerprinting, stealing, and
abusing users and the
On 3/14/21 11:04 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> Since you insist on misinterpreting, let me clarify.
I am not misinterpreting anything. You do not install anything in a
browser that can run an OS.
On 3/15/21 11:30 PM, Colby Russell wrote:
> It's as if there's a short-circuit in at least half of respondents'
> brains that prevents them from engaging in any way without at some point
> insisting that this *MUST* involve cloud architecture and SaaS-like web
> apps being the central focus.
Beca
On 3/15/21 6:26 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
> If I download software into Emacs, I run it in Emacs.
And you need to be told that emacs is not compatable to web borwser ..
but if EMACS was, it wouldl download random code from an unknown source
and run an entire OS in it with full trottle access and net
On 3/15/21 6:15 AM, Jean Louis wrote:
> If not, let us not work with hypothetical illusions.
Software running in your broswer to take over your computer and creating
a security whole is NOT hypothetical, although it WAS when RMS first
addressed it.
On 3/14/21 6:18 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> The GNU project should promote Free Software in all the ways that the
> user can benefit from those freedoms,
Correct and that is why this is disqualified out of the gate. This is
broken by design you know like APSX and Outlook and even Java. The
nif
On 3/14/21 11:04 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> "technology is designed to be something".
Something in this case is software designed to enslave the user and
allow for hackers to take over your computer.
On 3/15/21 11:30 PM, Colby Russell wrote:
> It is _absurd_ that it takes this much
> energy to continually refute this over and over.
it is obsurd from the ground up. Conceptually it is evil.
On 3/14/21 11:08 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> GCC has been used to write software that hacks into other people's
We are nt talking about GCC... We are talking about running a complete
OS in the broswer after loading it from an unsafe source. NO NO NO.
You DO understand that Browsers were created to
On 3/14/21 11:10 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> It can and it does, and I showed you
No sooner than we finally ditch flash and javabeans and the same bad
idea lifts its ugly head AGAIN.
It is a no. Someone will likely seriously die because of this being
implimented. Stuffing a VM and an OS in a b
On 3/14/21 6:18 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> This is a value judgement on the developer writing the software, not the
> technology of the software itself.
No. That value was made when they created the software. It is the
intention of the software itself. There is nothing nuetral about it.
It is
On 3/15/21 6:08 AM, Jean Louis wrote:
> Question of losing control over software that runs on computer must
> involve the question "Is the software proprietary?"
No. Richard had been working on this since the new GPL and this issue
isn't is it proprietary. The issue is software as a service t
On 3/14/21 11:05 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> How so?
because you are loading unknow code from a proven hostile source and it
is running and entire OS ... in your browser. We are talking a security
breach that makes outlook look like trusted entity.
Come now. We are adults.
On 3/14/21 7:57 AM, Schanzenbach, Martin wrote:
> No, it was not:
>
> "
> ince WebAssembly is now a reality, maybe you guys should get to making the
> browser versions of LL your software?
> "
webassembly needs to be removed from any browser. It is a security hole
if you can an OS in i
On 3/14/21 8:36 AM, Schanzenbach, Martin wrote:
> But I think it is important to look at such technology without prejudice.
No, you need to have servere prejudice. It is a bad idea from the
ground up, and it is not even an original idea. And can there be a
WORST programming language than javas
On 3/15/21 11:30 PM, Colby Russell wrote:
> Of course not, and it doesn't matter; it wouldn't make sense to expect
> it to use those APIs even if they were available. That would entail
> reliance on the local machine's resident system to perform essential
> services e.g. to manage the user's files
On 3/14/21 7:57 AM, Schanzenbach, Martin wrote:
> This issue is completely unrelated to the technology.
It is EXACTLY what the technology is designed to do, so by all means,
believe otherwise.
DJ Delorie wrote:
[...]
You are arguing that we should take away a technology from the user,
because some people use that technology in ways you disagree with.
However, other people use that same technology in other ways. It is not
the technology that is evil, it's how it's used that may be evil
Colby Russell wrote:
[...]
Consider this passage from The JavaScript Trap:
If the program is self-contained [...] you can copy it to a file on
your machine, modify it, and visit that file with a browser to run
it. But that is an unusual case.
In particular, consider the irony of it
Colby Russell wrote:
On 3/15/21 9:02 PM, Jacob Bachmeyer wrote:
[...]
> One of the rationales presented to me (off-list) for this was that a
> WebAssembly port of GNU could be run as a web app and therefore be
> "always up-to-date"
Despite quoting the salient parts from The JavaScript Trap, yo
Jean Louis wrote:
[...]
Question is rather if software is free or if one need proprietary programs
to run it in WebAssembly.
If there is nothing proprietary, we shall encourage creation of software
as WebAssembly is there because some people find it useful, we encourage
creation of free softwar
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