Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-22 Thread Casey Jones
Philipp Gühring wrote: Does anyone know of software available to make an old PC into something like a hardware security module. Yes, I developed exactly such software. Great. What is it called? Is it available? It´s called CommModule. It isn´t publically available yet, but it could be

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-15 Thread Casey Jones
Werner Koch wrote: On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Why doesn't it make sense? The chip's security features make it fairly secure. But having the keys encrypted on the card would make it highly secure. As long as the passphrase hadn't been captured, like after being

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-15 Thread Robert J. Hansen
I apologize if I sound terse here, but this conversation has (IMO) jumped the shark. But how can we be confident? Cf. Thompson, K. _Reflections on trusting trust_. Comm. ACM 27, 8 (Aug. 1984), 761-763. A digital version of it is currently available at http://www.acm.org/ classics/sep95/,

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-15 Thread Werner Koch
On Tue, 15 May 2007 08:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Cf. Thompson, K. _Reflections on trusting trust_. Comm. ACM 27, 8 (Aug. 1984), 761-763. David Wheeler recently published a paper which explains how to overcome this problem: Countering Trusting Trust through Diverse Double-Compiling

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-15 Thread Robert J. Hansen
David Wheeler recently published a paper which explains how to overcome this problem: Fascinating. I'm not sure that it overcomes the problem, but detection is probably 90% of the fight anyway. Thanks for the link! [goes off to read the paper again]

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-15 Thread Casey Jones
Robert J. Hansen wrote: I apologize if I sound terse here, but this conversation has (IMO) jumped the shark. But how can we be confident? Cf. Thompson, K. _Reflections on trusting trust_. Comm. ACM 27, 8 (Aug. 1984), 761-763. A digital version of it is currently available at

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-15 Thread Robert J. Hansen
Is it not legitimate then to discuss what level of trust it deserves and what level of trust is sufficient for what purpose? 'Legitimate' is a bad word to use. Is it legitimate? Sure, I guess, as long as you live in a nation with strong freedom of speech laws. If you live in Cuba, you

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-15 Thread David SMITH
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 01:23:13PM -0500, Andrew Berg wrote: Sven Radde wrote: unless you can calculate SHA-1 values in your head... I know it's off topic, but how hard would that be? I've never looked over the algorithm. As someone who has just implemented a hardware SHA-1/256 engine, hard

Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Casey Jones
Does anyone know of software available to make an old PC into something like a hardware security module. OpenHSM.org looks like what I want, but the site says they're still in the design phase, and the last update was in 2004. I can't stand the thought of storing my private key on my main

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Sven Radde
Hi! Casey Jones schrieb: Does anyone know of software available to make an old PC into something like a hardware security module. What about Knoppix? It supports GnuPG and you can easily have your keys on a (dedicated) USB drive while booting your (regular or dedicated) PC with Knoppix to do

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Robert J. Hansen
Does anyone know of software available to make an old PC into something like a hardware security module. What particular type of HSM do you mean? I can't stand the thought of storing my private key on my main computer. I use my main computer for things like web browsing and email,

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Robert J. Hansen
What prevents the keylogger in your first example to snarf the PIN code for the OpenPGP card and send decryption requests to the OpenPGP card, using the PIN code, in the background, possibly remotely controlled over the network? There exist cryptographic smart cards you can actually be

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Simon Josefsson
Robert J. Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What prevents the keylogger in your first example to snarf the PIN code for the OpenPGP card and send decryption requests to the OpenPGP card, using the PIN code, in the background, possibly remotely controlled over the network? There exist

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Werner Koch
On Mon, 14 May 2007 10:44, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: something's wrong. Can the OpenPGP Card be set to do one operation per pin entry when used with a card reader that has a keypad? This seems Yes, use the command forcesig in the --card-edit menu to toggle this feature. However it does not

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Simon Josefsson
Robert J. Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been considering getting an OpenPGP Card, but there are three reasons I'm reluctant to. The main one is that I want something that will only do one signature or decryption at a time. That way if my machine is compromised, I'll only suffer one

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Casey Jones
Sven Radde wrote: Casey Jones schrieb: Does anyone know of software available to make an old PC into something like a hardware security module. What about Knoppix? It supports GnuPG and you can easily have your keys on a (dedicated) USB drive while booting your (regular or dedicated) PC

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Casey Jones
Werner Koch wrote: On Mon, 14 May 2007 10:44, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: something's wrong. Can the OpenPGP Card be set to do one operation per pin entry when used with a card reader that has a keypad? This seems Yes, use the command forcesig in the --card-edit menu to toggle this feature.

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Andrew Berg
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Robert J. Hansen wrote: I've been considering getting an OpenPGP Card, but there are three reasons I'm reluctant to. The main one is that I want something that will only do one signature or decryption at a time. That way if my machine is

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Robert J. Hansen
How do they work? A (very) small display to show the hash that's being signed and an integrated PINpad. PC sends data to the smartcard unit for signing, then signals the SC unit okay, I'm done, sign now, please. SC pauses to display to the user the hash and get the PIN directly on its

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Zeljko Vrba
Robert J. Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What prevents the keylogger in your first example to snarf the PIN code for the OpenPGP card and send decryption requests to the OpenPGP card, using the PIN code, in the background, possibly remotely controlled over the network? There exist

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Andrew Berg
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Sven Radde wrote: unless you can calculate SHA-1 values in your head... I know it's off topic, but how hard would that be? I've never looked over the algorithm. How hard would it be to calculate MD5? MD4? CRC32? - -- Windows NT 5.1.2600 |

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Werner Koch
On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: My personal opinion is that, at the current state of security in today's OS-es, smart cards give just a false sense of security in typical usage scenarios (= when used on a general-purpose, networked workstation). Smart cards have one

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Werner Koch
On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Why doesn't it make sense? The chip's security features make it fairly secure. But having the keys encrypted on the card would make it highly secure. As long as the passphrase hadn't been captured, like after being No, you are required to

Re: Old PC as Hardware Security Module?

2007-05-14 Thread Casey Jones
Zeljko Vrba wrote: there's NO WAY to prevent this attack. Not even separate PIN entry device helps, The attack that I'm referring to here which the PIN pad is meant to prevent, is only the unlimited use of the smart card. An attacker can still make a signature or decrypt something, but only