Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-30 Thread Werner Koch
On Wed, 30 May 2012 16:16, r...@sixdemonbag.org said: > On 05/30/2012 09:40 AM, Mark H. Wood wrote: >> Oh, how many times have I wondered why GPA has no search tool. > > Taking a look at GPA, it seems that 0.9.0 no longer compiles on a modern > UNIX -- it expects libassuan-1.x, apparently, and liba

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-30 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 05/30/2012 09:40 AM, Mark H. Wood wrote: > Oh, how many times have I wondered why GPA has no search tool. Taking a look at GPA, it seems that 0.9.0 no longer compiles on a modern UNIX -- it expects libassuan-1.x, apparently, and libassuan's now in a version 2. I wasn't able to get the git chec

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-30 Thread Mark H. Wood
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 09:23:08PM +0200, Werner Koch wrote: > On Tue, 29 May 2012 19:44, r...@sixdemonbag.org said: > > > Anyway. If people are interested in what I found out about effective > > user-interface design with respect to certificate managers, say the > > word. Otherwise I'll crawl b

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-30 Thread Michel Messerschmidt
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 10:03:57PM -0400, Robert J. Hansen wrote: > There may be a use case for contextualization in certificates, but if so > I haven't found it yet. :) You may wnat to lookup up all certificates that signed a certificate. Or just get all your certificates displayed. Or all cert

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-29 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 5/29/12 9:57 PM, reynt0 wrote: > In general, being able to examine variation of content within > uniformity of structure is also a way to legitimate the > specific content of interest. As I said, it's useful when data must be contextualized. For a spreadsheet, the information in one row must b

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-29 Thread reynt0
On Tue, 29 May 2012, Robert J. Hansen wrote: . . . Tabular data is the Right Thing To Do in two major use cases. The first is when you have a noninteractive display of identical field(s) for multiple pieces of data. Consider a printed almanac: if it wants to convey a list of countries and popu

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format [was: Re: getting an encrypted file to show what public key was used]

2012-05-29 Thread David Shaw
On May 29, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > On 05/29/2012 02:18 PM, David Shaw wrote: >> The reason I bring it up is that using the v3 key attack, 64-bit key IDs >> have no particular benefit over 32-bit IDs for intentional collisions (i.e. >> an attacker generating a key with the

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-29 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 5/29/12 3:23 PM, Werner Koch wrote: > However, changing such a common UI might result in a > lot of negative comments - people love what they once learned. Absolutely. The good news, though, is that (at least in the Free Software world) the 'market' is fragmented. No one particular key manage

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format [was: Re: getting an encrypted file to show what public key was used]

2012-05-29 Thread Daniel Kahn Gillmor
On 05/29/2012 02:18 PM, David Shaw wrote: > The reason I bring it up is that using the v3 key attack, 64-bit key IDs have > no particular benefit over 32-bit IDs for intentional collisions (i.e. an > attacker generating a key with the same key ID as the victim in order to > confuse matters and/o

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-29 Thread Werner Koch
On Tue, 29 May 2012 19:44, r...@sixdemonbag.org said: > Anyway. If people are interested in what I found out about effective > user-interface design with respect to certificate managers, say the > word. Otherwise I'll crawl back under my rock and leave the subject GPA has many different ways to

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format [was: Re: getting an encrypted file to show what public key was used]

2012-05-29 Thread David Shaw
On May 29, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Sam Whited wrote: > On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 1:47 PM, David Shaw wrote: >> On May 29, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: >> >> What is your concern here, though - accidental or intentional collision? > > Certainly both; while accidental collision isn't pro

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format [was: Re: getting an encrypted file to show what public key was used]

2012-05-29 Thread Sam Whited
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 1:47 PM, David Shaw wrote: > On May 29, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > > What is your concern here, though - accidental or intentional collision? Certainly both; while accidental collision isn't probable, 32-bit IDs aren't exactly collision resistant eithe

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-29 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 5/29/12 1:44 PM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: > According to Google's HCI guys [2], 90% of the U.S. internet-using > population doesn't know how to use Control-F to find a word in a > document or a page. Whoops, editing error. Should've been footnote [1], and I should've listed it as: http://www.

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-29 Thread David Shaw
On May 29, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Werner Koch wrote: > On Tue, 29 May 2012 18:31, r...@sixdemonbag.org said: > >> Honestly, this seems like something to bring up to the IETF WG. The RFC >> already has a plethora of implementation recommendations: adding an >> implementation recommendation of "use lon

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format [was: Re: getting an encrypted file to show what public key was used]

2012-05-29 Thread David Shaw
On May 29, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > On 05/29/2012 11:35 AM, Werner Koch wrote: >> Use >> >> gpg --keyid-format long --decrypt sensitive_file.gpg >> >> to see the non-abbreviated key ID as stored in the file. Use this to >> find the key on a server, etc. > > i've seen

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-29 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 5/29/12 1:18 PM, Werner Koch wrote: > Frontends should handle this problem. The problem is that most people developing front ends are making them pretty darn user-hostile. A few years ago while taking some HCI courses, I did a usability study on the most common certificate interface -- the tab

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-29 Thread Doug Barton
On 5/29/2012 10:18 AM, Werner Koch wrote: > Hiding the keyID from the user would even be better - the mail > address should be sufficient for 99% of all users. I use the e-mail address for almost all of my command-line work, FWIW. -- If you're never wrong, you're not trying hard enough ___

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format

2012-05-29 Thread Werner Koch
On Tue, 29 May 2012 18:31, r...@sixdemonbag.org said: > Honestly, this seems like something to bring up to the IETF WG. The RFC > already has a plethora of implementation recommendations: adding an > implementation recommendation of "use long key IDs when possible" seems I bet that this will imm

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format [was: Re: getting an encrypted file to show what public key was used]

2012-05-29 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 5/29/12 11:51 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > Perhaps GnuPG should change the default of --keyid-format from "short" > to "long"? Hurts interoperability. Once someone learns the process on PGP or BouncyCastle or [insert OpenPGP implementation here], they're going to want to take those same sk

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format [was: Re: getting an encrypted file to show what public key was used]

2012-05-29 Thread Kristian Fiskerstrand
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2012-05-29 17:51, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > On 05/29/2012 11:35 AM, Werner Koch wrote: ... > I think switching the default to "long" would be on balance a Good > Thing. > I agree, and don't see much of a reason not to use a long KeyID rathe

Re: changing the default for --keyid-format [was: Re: getting an encrypted file to show what public key was used]

2012-05-29 Thread Hauke Laging
Am Di 29.05.2012, 11:51:06 schrieb Daniel Kahn Gillmor: > I think switching the default to "long" would be on balance a Good Thing. A smaller change which should "solve" most of these problems could be to change the error message. If gpg is operating with the short format then a respective hint