goanet-digest Monday, May 20 2002 Volume 01 : Number 3991
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In this issue:
[Goanet] Scientific method
[Goanet] Sunila's MESSAGE
Re: [Goanet] Scientific method
[Goanet] Birth of a new nation
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 08:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Almeida" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] Scientific method
Dear Santosh,
Bald factual claims such as those relating to the
missing corpse of the historical Jesus, or the
subsequent response of his disciples to persecution,
have never been unfalsifiable. Let historical
scholarship aided by increasingly sophisticated
technology continue to refute any falsehoods, so that
nobody need be deceived.
Like you, I am happy for individuals to choose
whatever they wish to believe. However, I try not to
cast aspersions on their choice (just as I would nor
"commit nuisance" in their drinking water).
You write of religious belief:
"something to cling to in spite
of contrary evidence"
As far as my own religious belief goes, I suggest that
you first present some contrary evidence, then decide
whether I cling or not. Until then, I am inclined to
dismiss such statements as mere prejudice.
True, there are many aspects of religious belief (if
not also everyday opinion) that are beyond science, in
the sense of being unfalsifiable: particularly those
deriving from personal experience of love or prayer.
To the many who delight in their religion, and are
more concerned about living than talking about life, I
have a message: Ignore claims that science is
incompatible with religion. Both, at their best, keep
us firmly rooted in reality. Religion and prayer also
"reach the parts that science cannot reach", helping
us lead a more meaningful, fuller and happier life.
Regards,
Joel Almeida
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:23:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Almeida" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] Sunila's MESSAGE
Sunila writes:
"If you actually look at the custodians
of organised religion you will find a whole horde of
perverts ranging from
paedophiles and child/female abusers to drug addicts
to violence
recommenders to revenge fanatics to racists to basic
cheats and liars and
egoistic chauvinists. And most people actually follow
them blindly"
I fully agree with Sunila that we should not overlook
the failings of the custodians of organized religion.
I do not have access to survey findings on these
questions, but my hunch is that the incidence rate of
sin among them is no lower than in the general
population. When it comes to strong behavioural
predispositions such as child abuse, such people might
plausibly even gravitate towards positions of trust in
society (scout leaders, teachers, doctors, therapists
of various sorts, priests etc.) Let's not put any
human being on a pedestal.
Sunila also wrote:
"if all in India gave up their religion, everyone
would
focus on real issues like the economy, education,
infrastructure, health,
sanitation, and development"
Politicians are supposed to focus on such real and
important issues (I would add law and order at the top
of the list, if Sunila permits). However, even
anti-religious politicians could include:
"perverts ranging from
paedophiles and child/female abusers to drug addicts
to violence
recommenders to revenge fanatics to racists to basic
cheats and liars and
egoistic chauvinists."
Rum thing, human nature. Hope for the best and be
alert to the worst.
Cheers,
Joel Almeida
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:38:11 -0700
From: "Marlon Menezes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Scientific method
- ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "J. Almeida" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 08:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
>Dear Santosh,
>
>Bald factual claims such as those relating to the
>missing corpse of the historical Jesus, or the
>subsequent response of his disciples to persecution,
>have never been unfalsifiable. Let historical
>scholarship aided by increasingly sophisticated
>technology continue to refute any falsehoods, so that
>nobody need be deceived.
>
Conversely, the claims made about Jesus and his disciples - much of it forming the
basis of christianity have not been proven either. Furthermore, based on current state
of the art, much of it would be very difficult to prove, thus making some of the
foundations of christianity very shaky indeed. Perhaps this could change in the future.
Until this is done however, I do not believe much of the fundamentals of christianity
passes the test of the scientific method as practiced today.
One should add however that nothing is solid or well defined in the world of science
either. Newtonian mechanics was deemed to be "the law" until the theory of relativity
came along. In retrospect, we now know that the observations that were made during the
newtonian era while passing the criteria of the scientific method during that period,
were found to be subsets of laws as defined by relativity, and therefore not fully
accurate. On the otherhand, this too is part of the scientific method, a back door
exit strategy if you will in which once something is "proven" valid, it can then be
proven to be invalid when something better comes along. This is in a sense an
acknowledgement by science that that there is no "eternal truth" and that human
observation/data collection/interpretation is not perfect.
This is in many ways eloquently, but subtly suggested in Heisenberg's "uncertainty
principle" which puts limits to the accuracy and/or quantity of information that can
be obtained through the scientific process. Perhaps if some of the people of the
various religions of the world accepted this principle, this world would be a much
better place today.
Marlon
Germany: 2002 World Cup Champions (now this is an absolute)
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 18:06:22 +0100
From: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] Birth of a new nation
(This text is being separately posted in Portuguese to the Goa-Portuguese
mailing list)
At zero hours of today - local time (18h30 of the 19th in India and 14h00
also of the 19th in Portugal) a new nation was born: the Democratic Republic
of East Timor (Republica Democratica de Timor-Leste).
The island of Timor measures about 470 x 100 km with an area of 32,300 sq km
and a population of around 1,400,000. The Portuguese reached the island
somewhere between 1512 and 1516. In 1651 the western half of the island
(with the exception of Oecussi-Ambeno) was conquered by the Dutch and, when
Indonesia attained independence in 1945, was integrated in this country.
East Timor + Oecussi-Ambeno, with an area of 18,900 sq km, remained under
Portuguese domination until the Fretilin freedom movement made an unilateral
declaration of independence on November 25, 1975. This independence was not
recognised by any country and ten days later Indonesia marched in,
forcefully occupied the territory and later annexed it as its 27th province.
However, this occupation and annexation were also not recognised (except by
Australia) and the United Nations continued to classify it as a Portuguese
territory under foreign occupation. The East Timorese continued to fight for
their freedom and finally an internationally supervised referendum held late
August 1999 dictated by an overwhelming majority (around 78%) its secession
from Indonesia. Horrible killings, destruction and pillages followed, at the
hands of Timorese "militia" supported by Indonesian military people. Between
1942 and 1945 East Timor faced Japanese occupation, during which a few
thousands of the local population died. In mid-1975, two thousand died as a
result of pre-indepence struggles among three freedom movements then
existing, and in the long period of about 24 years of Indonesian domination
(December 1975 - October 1999) the population is estimated to have been
decimated of about 220,000 persons. (Present population of East Timor:
approx. 800,000).
Indonesian domination was followed by an interim administration by the
United Nations. Two years after the referendum, on August 30, 2001, a
Constituent Assembly was elected and Fretilin, the majority party, formed an
interim government headed by Mari Alkatiri, with Nobel Peace Prize
Co-awardee Jose Ramos Horta as Minister of Foreign Affairs. In April this
year Xanana (Jose Alexandre) Gusmao, contesting as a candidate of nine
parties, was elected President of the future country with over 85% of votes.
The Assembly, meanwhile, voted to continue to function after independence,
now as a regular Parliament.
Yesterday, May 19th, there was about to be a major diplomatic incident when
six Indonesian warships entered East Timorese territorial waters (and one of
them even went as far as berthing at the port of the capital) without
seeking prior clearance, allegedly to render protection to their President
Ms Megawati Sukarnoputri when she later came to attend the independence
ceremonies. They were ordered out and, fortunately, obeyed.
Besides elaborating and voting the constitution, the Constituent Assembly
also approved the national flag and anthem and decided that Portuguese and
the local Tetum would be the national languages of East Timor.
The venue selected for the independence ceremonies was a place 8 km distant
from the capital city of Dili, by name of Taci Tolo (= Three Lagoons) which
is now to
be renamed to honour the country's martyrs, many of whose dead bodies were
"buried" by the Indonesians in these lagoons. By 20h30 of the 19th (local
time) an open-air Holy Mass was attended by a crowd estimated at over
200,000. The main celebrant was the Vatican's permanent representative at
the United Nations Archbishop Renato Martino, at the special invitation of
Mgr. Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo, Administrator Apostolic of the diocese of
Dili and co-awardee (with Ramos Horta) of Nobel Peace Prize. The celebrant
was sided by Bishop Belo and by the Administrator of East Timor's only other
diocese (Baucau) Bishop Basilio do Nascimento. I could not count the number
of cardinals, bishops and priests present. One could see in a prominent
place a statue of Our Lady of Fatima offered to Timor by the Portuguese
Marian Sanctuary and flown in from Portugal a few days before. The Mass,
interspersed with traditional religious songs in Tetum and dances, was
celebrated in Portuguese and lasted for about two hours, with the reading of
a message from Pope John Paul II as the last item. An inter-religious
celebration joining Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists and Muslims then took
place. These religious celebrations were followed, for another three hours,
by cultural programmes from East Timor's thirteen districts and the small
island of Atauro (which is in front of Dili).
At zero hours the UN flag was lowered while Barbara Hendricks sang
"Freedom".
The Secretary-General of the United Nations Mr. Kofi Anan then made a speech
in English (immediately translated in Tetum) and handed over the
administration to the Speaker of the Parliament Mr. Francisco Guterres who
then read the proclamation of the act of independence (or rather, as the
people like to call it, of the restoration of their
ten-day-long independence cut short by the Indonesians in December 1975).
The national flag having then been unfurled, the Speaker invested Xanana
Gusmao as President of the Republic. Xanana addressed to the new nation and
to the invitees (over ninety Heads of State and of Government, among whom
the Presidents of Indonesia and Portugal and the Prime Ministers of Portugal
and Australia, and also Bill Clinton during whose tenure as President of the
USA the UN intervened in East Timor in 1999) in English, Portuguese, Baasa
(Indonesian language) and Tetum.
Later during the day, President Xanana Gusmao, who is a Catholic (as the
majority of the population) formally invested the Government headed by Mari
Alkatiri (Muslim), the Government approved the resolutions to seek admission
in the United Nations Organisation and in CPLP (Commonwealth of Portuguese
Speaking Countries), and the Prime Ministers of East Timor and Australia
signed the agreement for the exploration of the petroleum-rich "Timor Gap".
The new country, one of the poorest in the world, is expected to start
drawing revenue from this exploration wef 2005. In the meantime it will
continue to get support from the international community. Portugal will also
continue to assist its former colony at least for another year, not only
financially but also by way of training the armed forces and security
personnel and as far as education (especially as regards the language) is
concerned.
East Timor is going to be the eighth (and last) member of CPLP (Commonwealth
of Portuguese Speaking Countries), side by side with Angola, Brazil, Cape
Verde, Guinea-Bissau, Mozambique, Portugal and Sao Tome & Principe.
Viva Timor-Leste!
Jorge de Abreu Noronha
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End of goanet-digest V1 #3991
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