Over to you Senhor Gabriel de Figuereido.

Don't let this sully against Senhor Ismail Gracias another Lotlecar go
unanswered.

Roland
 On 2014-04-05 5:23 PM, "Santosh Helekar" <chimbel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I express incredulity based on actual reports that I have read in
> contemporaneous sources about corruption and crookedness in the
> Portuguese administration. It is not based on third person hearsay or
> from the misty nostalgic childhood memories of summer holidays in Goa.
>
> So as promised, I provide below examples of corruption and crookedness
> in the Portuguese "system" from published sources documented in real
> time as the events were unfolding. I will provide only two examples
> for now with names of three high ranking public officials. I will
> provide more examples later, if needed.
>
> Both examples I give below have to do with the purchase and sale of
> Goa's staple food - rice. Both were serious scandals by any standard.
> The first one was particularly massive, and took place in 1936. It
> involved hundreds of Goan landlords and public officials, including
> district officers who were retired Portuguese military men, as well as
> the members of the Rice Board appointed by the Governor-General. Two
> of the biggest land owners in Salcete were implicated and charged with
> criminal offenses. One report indicated that over 250 people were
> charged with fraud, and this was merely the beginning. These corrupt
> private businessmen and government servants had forged official
> documents (rice manifests) on a massive scale and violated the
> protectionist and price control laws enacted by the government. The
> contemporaneous news report said that this organized fraud network in
> Goa had created a new manufacturing industry overnight - the wholesale
> manufacturing of rice manifests with over-inflated figures.
>
> So what happened to these hundreds of crooked and corrupt Portuguese
> administrators and citizens of Portuguese Goa in the end?
>
> For the most part, nothing. Not even a slap on the wrist.
>
> Only the board was replaced by a new board, and some of the district
> officers went back to their retired military life. The
> Governor-General went back to Lisbon and another took his place. In
> fact, one Craveiro Lopes was replaced by another Craveiro Lopes. That
> is to say, Major Higino Craveiro Lopes took the musical chair of
> General Craveiro Lopes.
>
> The second corruption scandal was called the "Bogus Rice Deal". It
> took place in 1954-55. It cost the Goan exchequer Rs. 35 lakhs. The
> Lisbon government suspected three high ranking Portuguese officials in
> Goa to be the culprits behind it - the Chief of the Cabinet, Captain
> Carmo Ferreira, the Police Chief, Captain Romba and another official
> named Ismail Gracias. Again, nobody took any action against these
> individuals. Justice, Goan style as always.
>
> That was the Portuguese system in Goa. If you need more examples of
> crookedness and corruption from this system I would be happy to
> provide them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Santosh
>
>
> > On Friday, April 4, 2014 12:31 PM, roland.francis <
> roland.fran...@ymail.com> wrote:
> > > Jose and Santosh babs,
> >
> > JC's undermentioned post takes care of my reply in a better manner than I
> > could have done.
> >
> > WHAT SYSTEM Santosh?
> > A system where honesty, clean public administration, speedy justice, and
> the
> > economic good of the people within the means available, trumped personal,
> > illegal, pecuniary gain perpetrated in mega doses and without impunity.
> >
> > Santoshbab, there are many things that have to be visualized and
> experienced
> > like in your scientific world in order to be believed.  Otherwise one
> expresses
> > incredulity like you have done.
> >
> > You are pessimistic about Portuguese administration, not having seen it
> or
> > experienced it. To that extent I can excuse your disbelief.
> >
> > Roland.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Samsung Mobile
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Jose Colaco <cola...@gmail.com>
> > Date: 04-04-2014  8:09 AM  (GMT-05:00)
> > To: Santosh Helekar <chimbel...@yahoo.com>,"Goa's premiere
> > mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet@lists.goanet.org>
> > Cc: "roland.francis" <roland.fran...@ymail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks?
> >
> > On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:12 AM, Santosh Helekar <chimbel...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > "How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese
> administration,
> > and when? What system did not allow it?"
> >
> >
> > COMMENT:
> >
> > While Roland does the needful to answer Santoshbab's question, I believe
> it
> > would help IF Santoshbab identified at least a couple of the crooks from
> the
> > Portuguese administration that he knows of.
> >
> > Otherwise, at this moment, it appears as though Roland is being asked to
> > prove/disprove the negative.
> >
> > Such techniques are possibly brilliant in Debates, Political skirmishes
> and
> > perhaps in the Court of Public Opinion; NOT in any reasonable court.
> >
> > ps: it is my understanding that the Vast Majority of administrators and
> > policemen in Portuguese Goans were Goans.
> >
> > Is the suggestion being made here that A SYSTEM which enabled Goans to
> live
> > without locking their front doors, actually allowed Corruption in public
> > administration to flourish?
> >
> > Might be a good idea to prove it.
> >
> > jc
> >
>
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Santosh Helekar <chimbel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I like to consult contemporary or historical writings for facts about
> > our history. I will retrieve from what I have read in the past the
> > names and/or designations of public officials who were reported to be
> > corrupt and crooked in the Portuguese administration when I have some
> > free time later. But asking to substantiate a factual statement by
> > Roland is not asking to prove a negative. All he has to do is tell us
> > where he got that factual information from. Given the fact that there
> > was no freedom of the press in Goa during the Portuguese rule, most of
> > the claims made by lay people are hearsay, and for the most part,
> > wrong. As for Josebab's understanding below, we know very well that in
> > the post-Portuguese Goa many of the administrative officials who are
> > known to be crooked and corrupt are also Goans, some of whom were
> > educated during the Portuguese rule. My observation has been that
> > corruption and crookedness does not have anything do with education,
> > race
> > or religion.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Santosh
> >
> >
> >> On Friday, April 4, 2014 7:09 AM, Jose Colaco <cola...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:12 AM, Santosh Helekar <chimbel...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> "How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese
> administration,
> >> and when? What system did not allow it?"
> >>
> >>
> >> COMMENT:
> >>
> >> While Roland does the needful to answer Santoshbab's question, I
> believe it
> >> would help IF Santoshbab identified at least a couple of the crooks
> from the
> >> Portuguese administration that he knows of.
> >>
> >> Otherwise, at this moment, it appears as though Roland is being asked to
> >> prove/disprove the negative.
> >>
> >> Such techniques are possibly brilliant in Debates, Political skirmishes
> and
> >> perhaps in the Court of Public Opinion; NOT in any reasonable court.
> >>
> >> ps: it is my understanding that the Vast Majority of administrators and
> >> policemen in Portuguese Goans were Goans.
> >>
> >> Is the suggestion being made here that A SYSTEM which enabled Goans to
> live
> >> without locking their front doors, actually allowed Corruption in public
> >> administration to flourish?
> >>
> >> Might be a good idea to prove it.
> >>
> >> jc
> >
> > Santosh wrote:
> >>
> >>How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese
> administration, and when? What system did not allow it?
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>Santosh
> >
> >> On Friday, April 4, 2014 12:02 AM, roland.francis <
> roland.fran...@ymail.com> wrote:
> >> > A very recent Goa news item says that one-third of Goa candidates
> have criminal
> >> records.
> >>
> >> I am not anti Indian or pro Portuguese or anything of the sort but
> knowing that
> >> in Potuguese Goa there was no crook in the administration (the system
> just
> >> didn't allow it) and now learning that  fully one third of Goan
> politicians
> >> are crooks, a result of the Indian dispensation, one is tempted to ask
> VMinGoa
> >> or his other avatar VMdeMalar whether "better" Indian education or
> >> "inferior" Potuguese education had anything to do with this?
> >>
> >> Roland.
> > *****************************************************************
> > No offense meant. But let the chips fall where they may.
> > *****************************************************************>
>
>
>
> --
> *****************************************************************
> No offense meant. But let the chips fall where they may.
> *****************************************************************
>

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