Sorry for the times in the log, my computer is set to UTC+11. 02:44 <+proppy> hey there 02:48 < sec_> good holiday proppy :) 02:48 <+proppy> I'm visiting london :) 02:48 <+proppy> not really in holiday 02:49 * sec_ have read all GAE thing related (but slow) 02:54 <+proppy> how many people are there for the upcoming office hours? 02:55 < jwbnyc> ++ 02:55 < mbw> im around 02:56 < sec_> ++ 02:57 < jwbnyc> I'd like to know about the datastore admin tool: It appears that it's not useful when entities are under namespaces. 02:57 <+proppy> ok nice :) 02:57 < sec_> i have many newbie questions :( 02:57 <+proppy> anyone want's to do an hangout ? 02:57 <+proppy> or do you prefer IRC 02:58 < jwbnyc> No preference for me. 02:59 < jwbnyc> We're running with Java SDK 1.6.0; would the datastore admin function change if we deployed with a newer SDK? 03:02 <+proppy> let me start the hangout 03:03 <+proppy> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/9e7da0a525c0945ee8f7d6e641c44849153c90bd 03:03 < vlad___> good morning 03:03 <+proppy> here we are 03:04 < vlad___> do we chat here on on g+? 03:04 <+proppy> jwbnyc: which function are you referring to? 03:04 <+proppy> vlad___: we can do both :) 03:04 < jwbnyc> Would it be good to change the topic message so folks have a better chance of finding the hangout? 03:04 < vlad___> ok, is greg darke or someone working on TaskQueues around? 03:04 <+proppy> ok 03:04 <+proppy> forget the hangout :) 03:04 <+proppy> it is not working for me 03:05 <+proppy> let's do it here 03:05 <+proppy> jwbnyc: usually the datastore admin tool, get's updated with new SDK version 03:05 <+proppy> but the fact that you deploy (or not) your application doesn't affect the functionnality 03:07 < sec_> are gae python only for geek? i had read 1week on Docs but don't go to far.. any tip for newcomer to use GAE fast (template, webapp2, datastore). Thanks 03:08 < jwbnyc> I'm looking at an issue that was started March 1: http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=3962 03:08 <+proppy> sec_: the python runtime is for everyone :) 03:08 < vlad___> Is greg darke or someone working on TaskQueues around? 03:08 <+proppy> sec_: it is actually the first runtime that was developped for App Engine 03:08 < vlad___> have a question on task scheduling 03:08 <+proppy> so there are many apps, and may resources about it 03:08 < dave_google> sec_: i've seen people have good luck by starting with the tutorial before diving deeper into the doc.s 03:08 <+proppy> vlad___: he will be there in a few minutes 03:09 <+proppy> sec_: I would recommend to try python27 tutorial, because it features webapp2, and jinja templates 03:09 < vlad___> thanks 03:09 <+proppy> sec_: http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/gettingstartedpython27/ 03:09 < jwbnyc> We poked at the admin tool and found no way to get to our data. 03:10 < sec_> thanks proppy dave_google 03:10 < jwbnyc> If our app deploys the 1.6.0 SDK does that mean we're lacking some enhancements to the admin tool in 1.6.3? 03:10 <+proppy> jwbnyc: will ask the eng team to followup 03:11 <+proppy> jwbnyc: nop, deploys should not affect the functionnality in the admin tool 03:11 < dave_google> jwbnyc: that'll be fixed in the 1.6.4 SDK 03:11 <+proppy> jwbnyc: here you go :) 03:12 < sec_> dave_google: where/how download sample code in tutorial? 03:12 < troberti> heh hangout plugin doesn't work 03:13 < troberti> ok chrome restart did the trick 03:13 < dave_google> sec_: you can copy/paste it directly from the tutorial pages. 03:13 < jwbnyc> (y) 03:14 < sec_> troberti: did you see bug in index.yaml? 03:14 <+proppy> troberti: I cancelled the hangout 03:14 <+proppy> troberti: I have issue with my webcam :( 03:14 < troberti> sec_: no I am working, not debugging other peoples tutorials :) 03:14 < troberti> proppy: aha 03:15 < dave_google> sec_: there's also http://googcloudlabs.appspot.com/which has a different tutorial, also put together by googlers. 03:15 < troberti> was just lurking there anyway :) 03:16 < sec_> dave_google: http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/gettingstartedpython27/usingdatastore.html|| i try that index.yaml on real server( not devserver in SDK), and got 500 error. what is it? 03:16 <+proppy> moar questions? 03:16 < dave_google> sec_: did you register an application and change the application: line? 03:17 < BlartShart> Is there a way to programatically invoke the admin console's datastore backup from a java app? I'd like to schedule that with a cron job 03:17 < sec_> dave_google: i did 03:18 < dave_google> sec_: oops, scratch that second tutorial. you're doing python. 03:18 < dave_google> sec_: does anything of use show up on the application logs (via the admin console)? 03:18 < jwbnyc> Any projection for (more) availability of SSL for custom domains? 03:18 < troberti> ok lazy question: Is it possible to pack all entities of a kind in a big blob and then transfer that to another app? 03:18 < sec_> dave_google: yes, let me login 03:19 < troberti> lazy because I could probably figure it out myself :) 03:19 < troberti> I wonder if there is a really easy way to do that 03:20 < dave_google> troberti: does any of the entities hang on to keys for other entities? 03:20 < troberti> no 03:20 < troberti> it's for a custom migration 03:20 <+proppy> jwbnyc: it is still in trusted testing 03:20 <+proppy> jwbnyc: did you already sign up? 03:21 < troberti> would like to migrate all my entities to another app, and in the mean time also do a model migration 03:21 < troberti> figured blobstore would be the easiest (+cheapest) 03:21 < sec_> dave_google: http://pastebin.com/NVkiiFfk 03:21 <+proppy> troberti: so you could easily do that using a pipeline job 03:21 < jwbnyc> proppy: I submitted our request for SSL last month, I believe. 03:22 <+proppy> jwbnyc: can you pm me your email 03:22 < troberti> proppy: well that's what I am hoping :) 03:22 <+proppy> so I can ping people in charge of the program 03:23 <+proppy> troberti: so the pipeline API is really handy, I believe there is an example that zip entities in the blobstore 03:23 < troberti> ok that sounds perfect 03:23 < dave_google> sec_: did you run the app on the dev server before you uploaded? the dev server notices what indexes you need and saves that in indexes.yaml, which gets uploaded along with your app. looks like that might not have happened here. 03:23 <+proppy> troberti: http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/dataprocessing/helloworld.html 03:23 <+proppy> troberti: it is blobstore to blostore 03:23 <+proppy> but you can easily adapt it to read from datastore 03:24 < troberti> cool I'll go do something like that then 03:25 < troberti> oh an important question in this context 03:25 < troberti> when will mapreduce work with python27 + ndb? :) 03:25 < sec_> dave_google: i didn't run on the dev server 03:25 <+proppy> troberti: yes, I believe it does if you do your own copy of code.google.com/p/appengine-mapreduce 03:25 <+proppy> with your app 03:26 <+proppy> troberti: see datastoreinputreader 03:26 <+proppy> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/dataprocessing/readers_writers.html#DatastoreInputReader 03:26 <+proppy> so if you do a mapperpipeline 03:26 <+proppy> (you don't need the reduce phase) 03:26 <+proppy> with a datastoreinputreader 03:26 <+proppy> and a blobstoreoutputwriter 03:26 <+proppy> that should be it 03:27 < troberti> and that goes in a single blob then? pretty neat 03:27 < sec_> dave_google: the problem only fix if $rm index.yaml, run on dev server, to auto generate new index.yaml. Then i uploaded my app 03:27 < dave_google> sec_: you shouldn't need to rm it. it'll get updated. 03:28 < dave_google> (unless you're dropping indexes.) 03:30 <+proppy> troberti: something like http://paste.pocoo.org/show/569121/should do the trick 03:30 < sec_> dave_google: is it that indexes.yaml or index.yaml ? 03:30 < troberti> that's pretty simple :) tnx proppy 03:30 <+proppy> just discovered that stuff recently 03:30 <+proppy> it is need 03:30 < vlad___> Johan could you ping Greg pls? 03:31 < dave_google> sec_: index.yaml 03:32 <+proppy> s/need/neat/ 03:32 < REBot__> What proppy meant was: "it is neat" 03:32 <+proppy> gregdarke: you there? 03:32 <+gregdarke> Morning 03:32 < sec_> dave_google: so do i need sample code on the dev server before upload? 03:33 < vlad___> morning Greg 03:33 < vlad___> have a question on TaskQueue scheduling 03:33 < tian2992> sec_, the dev server just runs what's on the folder you tell it to run 03:33 <+gregdarke> vlad___: Sure, what is it? 03:34 < vlad___> I struggled a lot with this Task scheduling problem. Assume simplest configuration - 1 instance and all scheduler knobs are on default - Automatic. 03:34 < vlad___> Here are the symptoms: If a task(s) is scheduled from a user request, they generally execute on time. However, if a task is scheduled from another task and there is a minimum of activity on the instance around eta of the task then this task execution is delayed by 60-70 seconds. This is a very consistent, easily reproducible behavior. I have sample code to demonstrate if necessary. 03:34 < dave_google> sec_: yes, and you need to have run through whatever part of the app will use the new index. dev_appserver notices that, and updates index.yaml 03:34 < vlad___> Problem: I need those “background” tasks (defined as scheduled from another task) to be executed on time. I need them to be prioritized the same as user requests. How can I do that? 03:34 < vlad___> Otherwise it is near impossible to build time driven game engines. 03:35 < BlartShart> Soo... anyone know if there is a way to invoke the admin console backup of datastore (programatically through java) or am I out of luck? 03:35 < sec_> dave_google: thanks, but i still don't understand in tutorial has two indexes.. 03:35 < vlad___> is my Q clear? 03:35 <+gregdarke> vlad___: Is there a bug for this behaviour? 03:36 < vlad___> not exactly 03:36 < sec_> dave_google: in fact on "Data viewer" has only one. 03:36 < vlad___> since behavior is so consistent I think it is a feature of your scheduler 03:36 <+proppy> BlartShart: I think it will be complicated, because it require auth 03:36 <+proppy> BlartShart: feeling a feature request would make sense 03:37 <+gregdarke> vlad___: Have you done anything to stop App Engine from starting up a new instance, or have you changed any of the retry properties of the queue/task? 03:37 < BlartShart> proppy: ok, I'll create a request... thanks 03:37 < vlad___> I thought it to be an artifact of free app where scheduler has no freedom to spin up new instances. But I tried a paid app with Min Idle Instance = 2 and got exactly the same behavior. 03:37 < dave_google> sec_: the log tells me that the app needs an index for an ancestor query. 03:37 <+proppy> but you can easily reproduce what the backup is doing yourself if you need 03:37 <+proppy> using the pipeline API 03:37 <+proppy> (and python) 03:38 <+gregdarke> vlad___: Do you have a link to that testcase, I can pass it on to the taskqueue team for them to have a look at it 03:38 <+proppy> here is a sample pipeline I pointed to troberti that copy all entitiy from 1 entitykind to the blobstore: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/569121/ 03:38 <+gregdarke> (I am no longer on the taskqueue team myself) 03:38 < sec_> dave_google: thanks, got your idea! 03:39 < vlad___> i have sample code, how can I pass it on? 03:39 <+proppy> vlad___: you can create an issue on the public issue tracker 03:39 <+proppy> and attach the sample to it 03:39 <+gregdarke> Easiest way is to create a bug on the bug tracker and upload the sample code as an attachment 03:39 <+gregdarke> yeah, what proppy just said 03:39 < sec_> dave_google: are you author of book about GAE, ? 03:39 < vlad___> certainly 03:39 < vlad___> do agree that it is a bug? 03:40 <+proppy> vlad___: I will assign the component task queue to it 03:40 <+proppy> so the task queue team can followup with you 03:40 < jwbnyc> sec_: The development server builds an index.yaml based on how the app accesses the datastore, so if you don't run the app locally, you're likely to be missing indexes when you deploy. 03:40 <+proppy> they are actively monitoring public issue 03:40 < dave_google> sec_: no (or not yet) 03:41 < sec_> dave_google: yes, http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920017547.do 03:41 < tian2992> jwbnyc, the dev server does not create indexes when accessing through the language right? 03:41 < vlad___> who leads taskqueue work now? 03:41 < sec_> dave_google: sorry i forgot author name.. 03:41 <+gregdarke> vlad__: I agree that it is sub-optimal 03:41 < vlad___> can you speculate how I can work around it in the meanwhile? 03:41 <+gregdarke> The lead for taskqueue is still the same, though he does not hang out in irc 03:42 < dave_google> sec_: dan sanderson wrote one. 03:42 < dave_google> tain2992: dev appserver maintains index.yaml (in python). it also simulates having those indexes. 03:43 <+proppy> BlartShart: vlad___ : feel free to point me to the issue once you filled them 03:43 <+proppy> so I can triage them properly 03:43 < sec_> dan sanderson: in early release, does it include part webapp2, template, datastore HRD? 03:44 < sec_> dave_google: dan sanderson is around? 03:45 <+gregdarke> vlad___: I would have to run the sample myself so that I can see what is causing the issue 03:45 < dave_google> sec_: around google, yes. his book predates python 2.7 support, though. 03:45 <+gregdarke> It could be one of many different things 03:45 <+proppy> sec_: I heard is is working on a new revision 03:46 < vlad___> yeah, it was always working like that. But recently I finally understood the pattern 03:46 <+proppy> he posted article draft here http://ae-book.appspot.com/ 03:46 <+proppy> if you are subscribed to o'reilly rought cut 03:46 < dave_google> proppy: cool. i hadn't seen that. 03:47 < vlad___> so who is the right engineer to look into this if you moved off to other features? 03:48 <+proppy> vlad___: task queue engineers are :) 03:48 <+proppy> vlad___: they will get a notification once you fill the bug, and I triage it to the task queue component 03:50 < vlad___> ok, not being nousy. Just want to know who to followup with because frankly bug tickets often are dropped on the floor 03:50 < vlad___> and swept under the rug 03:53 <+proppy> vlad___: not if they get triaged properly :) 03:53 < vlad___> thanks 03:53 < vlad___> thanks Johan, Greg. Have a great day 03:53 <+proppy> vlad___: u2 03:54 < jwbnyc> I feel the need to argue that the issues on appengine seem to move at a reasonable pace. 03:54 < jwbnyc> The issues that are poorly described or appear to be very app specific at the ones that don't move. 03:54 < vlad___> was that directed at me? 03:56 < sec_> another question: i bought domain + SSL from namecheap, when GAE support SSL for custom domain? 03:56 <+proppy> sec_: it is currently in trusted tester phase 03:57 <+proppy> meaning that you have to request access to be able to test it 03:57 <+proppy> sec_: I can point you to the invitation request form if you are interested 03:57 < troberti> point me to it :o 03:57 < troberti> as well* 03:57 < troberti> oh another question 03:57 < troberti> is appengine blocked in china? 03:58 <+proppy> troberti: https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dHFoZFhlUTM1MUNpelFWcVJqcVAwckE6MQ 03:58 < sec_> proppy: thanks, please invite me. my SSL has 1year license , i want to test it 03:58 < troberti> I would like the 'official' answer for that 03:58 < dave_google> jwbnyc: i double-checked. it looks like the fix for bug you asked about earlier missed the 1.6.4 deadline. it'll be in the following release. 04:00 <+proppy> sec_: fill the form :) 04:00 < sec_> proppy: ah, my eye is waiting for link 04:01 < sec_> proppy: :) i saw 04:01 <+proppy> sec_: https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dHFoZFhlUTM1MUNpelFWcVJqcVAwckE6MQ 04:02 <+proppy> troberti: are you talking about a specific app? 04:02 <+proppy> or app engine in general 04:02 < troberti> well in general :) 04:02 < troberti> actually I am just asking because most people seem to think it is blocked, but it works just fine for me 04:03 < troberti> so I am wondering why that is the case :) 04:03 < troberti> and I want to make another app, but would like to ensure that it also works from china 04:04 <+proppy> troberti: just to confirm are you referring to App Engine accessibilty for chinese developer, or chinese visitor? 04:04 < troberti> chinese visitors 04:04 < BlartShart> proppy: I just submitted my first issue for the backup thing (http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=7180). I'm so proud. 04:04 < troberti> i am not chinese :) 04:06 <+proppy> I'm not aware of App Engine being globally blocked from China 04:06 < troberti> ok, great :) 04:07 < troberti> hope it stays that way :o 04:07 <+proppy> troberti: so if it happens for a specific website, then that's another discussion 04:07 < sec_> proppy: thanks, Your response has been recorded. 04:07 <+proppy> troberti: if you fill an issue of the public tracker, I would be more than happy to escalate it to the chinese government 04:08 < sec_> (with my SSL request) 04:08 < troberti> haha :) 04:08 < troberti> I rather keep it like it is ;) 04:09 <+proppy> so that close our office hours 04:09 <+proppy> feel free to continue to post development question on stackoverflow http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/google-app-engine 04:09 <+proppy> and start discussion about the platform on the groups groups.google.com/group/google-appengine 04:09 < sec_> thanks, and have good days googlers! 04:10 < dave_google> take care, all. 04:10 <+proppy> if someone has recorded the full log of the office hours 04:10 <+proppy> I would be glad if you can post it to the groups
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