Re: groff/Heirloom difference: break in diversion trap

2020-11-21 Thread G. Branden Robinson
At 2020-11-21T15:04:06+0100, Tadziu Hoffmann wrote: > You should replay diversions in no-fill mode (.nf), otherwise > whitespace will be reformatted *again* (which you usually don't > want, since diversions contain already-formatted material). Yp. Ding ding ding. A couple of qualifiers in CS

Re: groff/Heirloom difference: break in diversion trap

2020-11-21 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
You should replay diversions in no-fill mode (.nf), otherwise whitespace will be reformatted *again* (which you usually don't want, since diversions contain already-formatted material).

groff/Heirloom difference: break in diversion trap

2020-11-21 Thread G. Branden Robinson
In a move that will shock no one, I'm working on the manual. I'm also using Heirloom Doctools troff as a convenient stand-in for AT&T because it is a pain to fire up SIMH and run V7 Unix troff, though I have done it before. Is the following behavior difference a bug? Can someone explain to me wh

Re: [groff] Heirloom: text disappearing when output line trap + interrupted text

2019-04-27 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Tadziu, > I was actually surprised to see that this feature existed at all in > Heirloom and Unix nroff, and I would consider it to be a bug (just not > a bug that the Heirloom project introduced, but one that was already > present in Unix n/troff). > > My guess is that it's not intentional, bu

Re: [groff] Heirloom: text disappearing when output line trap + interrupted text

2019-04-25 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Based on this, if I understand correctly, without further knowledge > whether some arbitrary text would be passed through a diversion or not, > one must make sure he escapes (e.g using "\&") all words starting > with "." or "'", such as below? > AAA BBB BBB \&.CCC CCC Yes. (But beware of ma

Re: [groff] Heirloom: text disappearing when output line trap + interrupted text

2019-04-24 Thread Mircea Hossu
Thank you, Branden and Tadziu. It would seem this particular issue is most closely related to the investigation performed by Tadziu. Based on this, if I understand correctly, without further knowledge whether some arbitrary text would be passed through a diversion or not, one must make sure he es

Re: [groff] Heirloom: text disappearing when output line trap + interrupted text

2019-04-24 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Have Ultrix rise again? > https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/ancient/ Indeed! Didn't know this existed, but it's been an eye-opener. I ran the PDP-11 emulator with v7 Unix, and the included nroff (this appears to be pre-DIT n/troff, as troff just produced gibberish probably intended for

Re: [groff] Heirloom: text disappearing when output line trap + interrupted text

2019-04-24 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Tadziu, > our old Ultrix machine has been decommissioned Have Ultrix rise again? https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/ancient/ -- Cheers, Ralph.

Re: [groff] Heirloom: text disappearing when output line trap + interrupted text

2019-04-24 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Before creating a bug report, I would like to verify that I am not > misunderstanding something and that this is indeed a bug. [snip] Hard to tell. Maybe it's a feature of Heirloom roff. The documentation doesn't say much about how these output-line traps work internally except that they are

Re: [groff] Heirloom: text disappearing when output line trap + interrupted text

2019-04-23 Thread G. Branden Robinson
At 2019-04-22T06:20:05-0400, Mircea Hossu wrote: > Before creating a bug report, I would like to verify that I am not > misunderstanding something and that this is indeed a bug. > > It appears that a word starting with a period or apostrophe is > interpreted as a request/macro call even if it doe

[groff] Heirloom: text disappearing when output line trap + interrupted text

2019-04-22 Thread Mircea Hossu
Hello, Before creating a bug report, I would like to verify that I am not misunderstanding something and that this is indeed a bug. It appears that a word starting with a period or apostrophe is interpreted as a request/macro call even if it does not start at the beginning of the line, under the

Re: [groff] Heirloom troff invoke macro from string

2019-01-08 Thread Mircea Hossu
I do not have experience with online collaborative programming, so I just opened a github account and created an issue regarding this, along with source code and a few more examples: Suggestion: adding external scripting support to troff: https://github.com/n-t-roff/heirloom-doctools/issues/82 Wo

Re: [groff] Heirloom troff invoke macro from string

2019-01-08 Thread aksr
Hi, On Mon, Jan 07, 2019 at 10:01:40AM -0800, Mircea Hossu wrote: > If anyone else is interested, I can share all my work, which is > implemented in the Heirloom troff source tree. Any other suggestions > are very much appreciated. Maybe you could open a pull request or similar: https://github

Re: [groff] Heirloom troff invoke macro from string

2019-01-07 Thread Mircea Hossu
Thank you, Tadziu, it is an interesting trick and it does work in the test case posted earlier. Unfortunately, in a more realistic document, I did hit those "unexpected results", e.g. when the string was used inside a macro argument (thank you for the warning). The final solution I picked was to c

Re: [groff] Heirloom troff invoke macro from string

2019-01-04 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> But, after a quick experiment, it seems to not behave this > way. The macro body gets expanded instead of executing: In groff it works with the following change: .de m \c .nr x +1 .. Be aware that this is only a trick. It works in the running text, but can go wrong unexpectedly in o

Re: [groff] Heirloom troff invoke macro from string

2019-01-04 Thread Mircea Hossu
I didn't know that was possible. Yes, it would indeed solve my problem. But, after a quick experiment, it seems to not behave this way. The macro body gets expanded instead of executing: .do xflag 3 .papersize a4 .mediasize a4 .ps 14p .vs 24p . .nr x 0 1 .de m .nr x +1 .. .ds s \\n+x .ds t \\*m\\n

Re: [groff] Heirloom troff invoke macro from string

2019-01-04 Thread Carsten Kunze
You can invoke a macro with name xxx with \*[xxx] instead of .xxx You can even provide arguments for the macro in the form \*[xxx arg1 ...] as explained in http://n-t-roff.github.io/heirloom/doctools/troff.pdf §7.1. Does this answer your question or did you mean something else?

[groff] Heirloom troff invoke macro from string

2019-01-04 Thread Mircea Hossu
Is it possible in Heirloom troff to invoke a macro from a string? There is an escape sequence: \R'R ±N' => Set number register R to ±N This is useful, but the expression is too limiting in some cases. For example, is it possible to increase register R by 1 only if it hasn't reached a maximum va

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Problem with specific TTF font

2016-08-21 Thread Marcin Cieslak
Dnia 21.08.2016 Werner LEMBERG napisał/a: > >> I don't know if spaces are forbidden in the spec, but I have >> proposed the change (https://github.com/n-t-roff/heirloom-doctools/pull/34) >> to properly encode the glyph name so it does not >> interfere with PostScript. > > Glyph names in a `post' t

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Problem with specific TTF font

2016-08-21 Thread Werner LEMBERG
> I don't know if spaces are forbidden in the spec, but I have > proposed the change (https://github.com/n-t-roff/heirloom-doctools/pull/34) > to properly encode the glyph name so it does not > interfere with PostScript. Glyph names in a `post' table must not contain spaces, since they are intend

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Problem with specific TTF font

2016-08-21 Thread Marcin Cieslak
Dnia 20.08.2016 Werner LEMBERG napisał/a: > > >> actually I don't think it is really a heirloom-doctools issue, but >> rather problem with the font or ghostscript. >> >> The problem is described at >> >> https://github.com/n-t-roff/heirloom-doctools/issues/33 > > I've commented there; the font i

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Problem with specific TTF font

2016-08-20 Thread Werner LEMBERG
> actually I don't think it is really a heirloom-doctools issue, but > rather problem with the font or ghostscript. > > The problem is described at > > https://github.com/n-t-roff/heirloom-doctools/issues/33 I've commented there; the font is invalid. Werner

[Groff] [Heirloom] Problem with specific TTF font

2016-08-20 Thread Carsten Kunze
Hello, actually I don't think it is really a heirloom-doctools issue, but rather problem with the font or ghostscript. The problem is described at https://github.com/n-t-roff/heirloom-doctools/issues/33 With the test file supplied by the user and troff -ms test.ps | dpost > test.ps gs test.ps

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Request for testing a release candidate

2016-02-18 Thread Carsten Kunze
Hi Dorai, Dorai Sitaram wrote: > This is somewhat related.  What is the canonical way to determine using > generic troff commands that the troff being used is Heirloom troff, without > regard to whether compatibility is off or on?  (I used to test the number > register .g to rule out groff, but a

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Request for testing a release candidate

2016-02-18 Thread Dorai Sitaram
Hi Carsten: [Sorry. didn't send to group on first try.] This is somewhat related.  What is the canonical way to determine using generic troff commands that the troff being used is Heirloom troff, without regard to whether compatibility is off or on?  (I used to test the number register .g to rul

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Request for testing a release candidate

2016-02-18 Thread Carsten Kunze
Werner LEMBERG wrote: > Ah, I wasn't aware that the project moved to github. Please commit a > last change to the CVS repository that explains that the project has > moved, and that the CVS repository is now defunct! Ditto for > http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/doctools.html. That would indeed m

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Request for testing a release candidate

2016-02-17 Thread Werner LEMBERG
> since the last Heirloom troff release one year ago there had been > many bug fixes. Ah, I wasn't aware that the project moved to github. Please commit a last change to the CVS repository that explains that the project has moved, and that the CVS repository is now defunct! Ditto for http://hei

[Groff] [Heirloom] Request for testing a release candidate

2016-02-17 Thread Carsten Kunze
Hello, since the last Heirloom troff release one year ago there had been many bug fixes. Most of them are -mandoc related, some also address general typesetting issues. It had become necessary to create a new release since the state of the current release is quite obsolte. Before the release

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Adding Fonts To Heirloom

2015-12-31 Thread Carsten Kunze
Hello Henry, Henry McGilton wrote: > I have been reading and re-reading the Heirloom instructions for > adding fonts to the collection. > > Given that dpost is (apparently) a reflection of a LaserWriter II, > should I add new fonts to dpost, or should I create some new > device of my own? Have

[Groff] [Heirloom] Adding Fonts To Heirloom

2015-12-30 Thread Henry McGilton
I have been reading and re-reading the Heirloom instructions for adding fonts to the collection. Given that dpost is (apparently) a reflection of a LaserWriter II, should I add new fonts to dpost, or should I create some new device of my own? There is a snippet of information in the instruction

[Groff] [Heirloom] Adding \I for groff's \A functionallity

2015-09-17 Thread carsten . kunze
Hello, in lack of a Heirloom roff mailing list from time to time I use the groff list for Heirloom discussions hoping that some Heirloom users are on this list. It had IMHO been an unfortunate decision to to give \A at Heirloom a different meaning than that of groff's \A. Now I need this funct

[Groff] [Heirloom] Paragraph adjust "badness" calculation

2015-08-02 Thread carsten . kunze
Hello, compared to TeX Heirloom's paragraph formatting is unacceptable and will change. It is likely that parameters of the new behavior will be adjustable (since it depends on the typographs taste and the actual document, what is best), even the algorithm will be selectable (so e.g. current T

[Groff] [Heirloom] Paragraph adjust "badness" calculation

2015-08-01 Thread carsten . kunze
Hello, reffort@github (https://github.com/reffort) did notice a major issue in one of the key features of Heirloom roff which is paragraph-at-once formatting. Gunnar very likely did implement this algorithm based on the 1981 Knuth-Plass paper (KP-81 in the following text) and had maybe not bee

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-22 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> A. MM has no clear way to set ll You can use ll in MM, but the effect will remain local. It is common practice among macro packages to reset the line length to some "master value" on every paragraph / section header / etc. In MM that master value is taken from register W while defining the ma

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-22 Thread Mike Bianchi
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 09:02:16AM -0500, Blake McBride wrote: > I have been using troff on and off since 1983. I know all that. > > The macro packages act as a higher level API but almost never completely > duplicates all of the lower level commands. Surely you don't want to > conflict with a m

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-22 Thread Blake McBride
I have been using troff on and off since 1983. I know all that. The macro packages act as a higher level API but almost never completely duplicates all of the lower level commands. Surely you don't want to conflict with a macro package that assumes it has control over a certain parameter, but li

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-22 Thread Mike Bianchi
On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 08:35:34PM -0500, Blake McBride wrote: > On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 3:52 PM, wrote: > > The interface to .ll is \nW or .PGFORM. At first my plan was to implement > > .PGFORM. But *maybe* using W like MS's LL could also make sense. But for > > compatibility with groff .PGFOR

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-22 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> .ll works with MM in Heirloom and groff. Tbl should too. > It doesn't make sense to require all kinds of hoops just to > get something as basic as .ll to work. > Also, why would the problem be in MM? MM is working. I think > the problem is in tbl. I think you misunderstood me. Tbl *is* usi

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-22 Thread carsten . kunze
> Adding .PGFORM is fine, but I would prefer just having .ll work like it > does on groff. This way the original docs work and produce as expected. .PGFORM is already implemented but not committed yet. Do you know how .ll works in groff's MM? It is not documented. You know how it works for y

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-21 Thread Blake McBride
On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 3:52 PM, wrote: > ... > > The interface to .ll is \nW or .PGFORM. At first my plan was to implement > .PGFORM. But *maybe* using W like MS's LL could also make sense. But for > compatibility with groff .PGFORM should be prefered. (?) > Adding .PGFORM is fine, but I wou

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-20 Thread carsten . kunze
> 1. I do use Heirloom troff and I often use MM. This is a statement. So heirloom MM will be changed now. > 2. The current behavior is wrong, period. The fact that changes are being > made to Heirloom at all proves that it isn't a think of absolute perfection > - not to be touched. If this i

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-20 Thread Blake McBride
Also, why would the problem be in MM? MM is working. I think the problem is in tbl. On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Blake McBride wrote: > 1. I do use Heirloom troff and I often use MM. > > 2. The current behavior is wrong, period. The fact that changes are > being made to Heirloom at all

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-20 Thread Blake McBride
1. I do use Heirloom troff and I often use MM. 2. The current behavior is wrong, period. The fact that changes are being made to Heirloom at all proves that it isn't a think of absolute perfection - not to be touched. If this issue were reported back when MM was being developed, they would hav

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-19 Thread carsten . kunze
Hi Ralph, > groff_mm(7): > > PGFORM [linelength [pagelength [pageoffset [1 thank you! If one *uses* heirlooms -mm macros and *really* needs that feature it could be added. Otherwise I would agree with Tadziu that initially setting W should be sufficient. The -ms macros had register

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-19 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> [...] though I think that was accidental and thus a bug. https://xkcd.com/1172/ :-)

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-19 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Tadziu, > You might even want to keep a copy of the macros with the document, to > avoid possible surprises in case the systemwide macros get updated and > this results in different formatting. As with the 1.17.2 to 1.18 change, though I think that was accidental and thus a bug. https://b

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-19 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> PGFORM [linelength [pagelength [pageoffset [1 Yes, but that's for the GNU version of mm. I don't think the original AT&T macros had a corresponding request. One could theoretically delve into the mm code to see how the various parts are initialized from the registers set on the comman

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-19 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Carsten, > IMHO it is not expected that .ll is compatible with the -mm macros. > These macros often set .ll from register W or other internal > registers. It looks to me that -mm doesn't support changing the line > length inside the document. Are there -mm experts who know the > suggested way

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-19 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I'd prefer it to be changed to work as expected rather than > have to employ secret internal steps. Then use the -rW command line option. This is the way the designers of mm intended the text width to be set (instead of using troff internals such as .ll), and it's clearly documented (so it's n

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-19 Thread carsten . kunze
Blake McBride wrote: > I'd prefer it to be changed to work as expected rather than have to employ > secret internal steps. IMHO it is not expected that .ll is compatible with the -mm macros. These macros often set .ll from register W or other internal registers. It looks to me that -mm doesn

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-19 Thread Blake McBride
I'd prefer it to be changed to work as expected rather than have to employ secret internal steps. Thanks. Blake On Jun 19, 2015 5:42 AM, "Tadziu Hoffmann" wrote: > > > The "expand" option works correctly (as expected) on groff, > > but when using Heirloom _with_ MM, it doesn't fully expand. > >

Re: [Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-19 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> The "expand" option works correctly (as expected) on groff, > but when using Heirloom _with_ MM, it doesn't fully expand. > I think it does without MM. In the heirloom version of mm the display is processed in environment 1, which still has the original line length. To fix your problem, you cou

[Groff] Heirloom TBL problem

2015-06-18 Thread Blake McBride
The "expand" option works correctly (as expected) on groff, but when using Heirloom _with_ MM, it doesn't fully expand. I think it does without MM. Here is a sample: .ll 6.5i Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party. Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of

Re: [Groff] [heirloom]

2014-12-08 Thread Denis M. Wilson
On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 18:08:28 + Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi Ingo, > > > You are confusing character escape sequences \[...] > > and user-defined strings \*[...]. > See groff_char(7) --

Re: [Groff] [heirloom]

2014-12-08 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Ingo, > You are confusing character escape sequences \[...] > and user-defined strings \*[...]. Thanks! Cheers, Ralph.

Re: [Groff] [heirloom]

2014-12-08 Thread Ingo Schwarze
Hi Ralph, Ralph Corderoy wrote on Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 05:53:31PM +: > Carsten wrote: >> someone wrote: >>> \(lqABC\(rq >>> doesn't put double quotes around ABC like groff and Neatroff do. >> This is a groffism :) > `info groff' has this under node `Predefined man strings' suggesting > it's

Re: [Groff] [heirloom]

2014-12-08 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi, Carsten wrote: > > \(lqABC\(rq > > > > doesn't put double quotes around ABC like groff and Neatroff do. > > This is a groffism :) `info groff' has this under node `Predefined man strings' suggesting it's with -man only, but it works all the time? Cheers, Ralph.

Re: [Groff] [heirloom]

2014-12-08 Thread Carsten Kunze
Hi Blake, > I haven't updated my Heirloom stuff in a little while but I came across an > interesting problem. > > \(lqABC\(rq > > doesn't put double quotes around ABC like groff and Neatroff do. This is a groffism :) Traditional troff did use ``ABC'' and nroff did use "ABC". But I'll add it.

[Groff] [heirloom]

2014-12-08 Thread Blake McBride
Greetings, I haven't updated my Heirloom stuff in a little while but I came across an interesting problem. \(lqABC\(rq doesn't put double quotes around ABC like groff and Neatroff do. Thanks. Blake

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-14 Thread Werner LEMBERG
> BTW--something I've never figured out is whether it's possible to > set up kern pairs in groff font files that have "space" as the first > element of the pair. This is not possible. Werner

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-14 Thread Peter Schaffter
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014, Dale Snell wrote: > But I am wondering if the publishing houses are hiring > professionals anymore. Pretty much, no, at least here in Canada. To be expected now that typesetter, as a recognized trade, is dead. -- Peter Schaffter http://www.schaffter.ca

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-14 Thread Mike Bianchi
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 01:53:20PM -0500, Peter Schaffter wrote: > > ... ease of reading or better comprehension ... > >have nothing to do with "the rules." Sigh. > : > The matter gets more complicated when you have sentences that end > with "r." or "y.". >

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-14 Thread Dale Snell
On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:31:48 +0100 Tadziu Hoffmann wrote: > > > > So the default groff behavior of adding additional space > > > between sentences also does not follow today's typical US > > > typography. You would have to specify ".ss 12 0" to achieve > > > US convention. > > > It seems ease

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-14 Thread Peter Schaffter
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014, Mike Bianchi wrote: > It seems ease of reading or better comprehension (which are the reasons I > prefer extra space after sentences, etc.) have nothing to do with "the rules." > Sigh. I wouldn't say "nothing," but the issue of spacing between sentences is tricky and hard to

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-14 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > So the default groff behavior of adding additional space > > between sentences also does not follow today's typical US > > typography. You would have to specify ".ss 12 0" to achieve > > US convention. > It seems ease of reading or better comprehension (which are > the reasons I prefer extra

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-14 Thread Mike Bianchi
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 08:17:50PM -0600, Dave Kemper wrote: > On 11/12/14, Carsten Kunze wrote: > > by default Heirloom troff inserts a double word space if a line ends with > > ":". Is this correct US English typography? > > Most modern US typography uses the same amount of space for everythin

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-13 Thread Dave Kemper
On 11/12/14, Carsten Kunze wrote: > by default Heirloom troff inserts a double word space if a line ends with > ":". Is this correct US English typography? Most modern US typography uses the same amount of space for everything on the line: between sentences, between words, and after any punctuat

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-13 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi jkl, > If the succeeding clause is independent, put it on a different line > and let troff treat it as end-of-sentence. If it's not, leave it in > the running text and let troff treat as end-of-word. Yep, matches how I understand English English. For the end of word:\& suffix with a zero-wi

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-13 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Carsten Kunze wrote: |"James K. Lowden" wrote: |> It is not incorrect. Typographical convention has varied over time and |> treatment of the colon along with it. So, "correct" is hard to pin |> down. |> |> I was taught 500 moons ago that a colon may be followed by one or two |> spaces

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Carsten Kunze
Clarke Echols wrote: > Only input lines that end with an end-of-sentence character > (including colon) is treated other than as a normal single-space- > between-words situation -- or at least that's my understanding. Ok, .cflags 1 sets it. I didn't get it on first reading of the documenta

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Clarke Echols
On 11/12/2014 03:13 PM, Carsten Kunze wrote: Werner LEMBERG wrote: How about 1.5 times the wordspace after a period that ends a sentence, 1.2 times the wordspace after a colon? Or some other fraction? groff's `.ss' command allows this. But groff does not distinguish between an input lin

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Carsten Kunze
Werner LEMBERG wrote: > > How about 1.5 times the wordspace after a period that ends a > > sentence, 1.2 times the wordspace after a colon? Or some other > > fraction? > > groff's `.ss' command allows this. But groff does not distinguish between an input line that ends with a word and an inpu

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Clarke Echols
On 11/12/2014 03:02 PM, Werner LEMBERG wrote: That is new to me. I thought that only one space is used after a colon. Why do people always think that space should exist only in integer multiples of a basic space quantum? This is what people used with old typewriters. How about 1.5 time

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Werner LEMBERG
>> That is new to me. I thought that only one space is >> used after a colon. > > Why do people always think that space should exist > only in integer multiples of a basic space quantum? This is what people used with old typewriters. > How about 1.5 times the wordspace after a period that ends

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> That is new to me. I thought that only one space is > used after a colon. Why do people always think that space should exist only in integer multiples of a basic space quantum? How about 1.5 times the wordspace after a period that ends a sentence, 1.2 times the wordspace after a colon? Or some

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Carsten Kunze
"James K. Lowden" wrote: > It is not incorrect. Typographical convention has varied over time and > treatment of the colon along with it. So, "correct" is hard to pin > down. > > I was taught 500 moons ago that a colon may be followed by one or two > spaces depending on purpose. Examples:

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Carsten Kunze
Peter Schaffter wrote: > For typeset copy with proportionally-spaced fonts, no. For > monospaced fonts (terminal), yes, but only if sentences are > separated by two wordspaces as well. That is new to me. I thought that only one space is used after a colon. So now what about the behavior of gr

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread James K. Lowden
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:08:12 +0100 (CET) Carsten Kunze wrote: > by default Heirloom troff inserts a double word space if a line ends > with ":". Is this correct US English typography? It is not incorrect. Typographical convention has varied over time and treatment of the colon along with it.

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Peter Schaffter
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014, Carsten Kunze wrote: > Hello, > > by default Heirloom troff inserts a double word space if a line > ends with ":". Is this correct US English typography? For typeset copy with proportionally-spaced fonts, no. For monospaced fonts (terminal), yes, but only if sentences are

[Groff] [Heirloom] Double word space after :

2014-11-12 Thread Carsten Kunze
Hello, by default Heirloom troff inserts a double word space if a line ends with ":". Is this correct US English typography? Carsten

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] Typographic quotes in -mdoc %T

2014-11-06 Thread Anthony J. Bentley
Hi Carsten, Carsten Kunze writes: > "Anthony J. Bentley" wrote: > > > It's worth noting that groff's refer(1) already uses typographic quotes > > around %T with my -ms documents. > > Can you please provide some lines of input for refer/-ms to reproduce this? foo.ms: .PP .[ foo .] bibliograp

[Groff] [Heirloom] Typographic quotes in -mdoc %T

2014-11-06 Thread Carsten Kunze
"Anthony J. Bentley" wrote: > It's worth noting that groff's refer(1) already uses typographic quotes > around %T with my -ms documents. Can you please provide some lines of input for refer/-ms to reproduce this? Carsten

[Groff] [Heirloom] new heirloom troff release soon

2014-10-26 Thread Carsten Kunze
Hello, following the groff trend :) there will be a heirloom troff release soon. AFAIK the last release had been on 2008-04-07. This had been a 32 bit version (normally at that time), which causes problems on current 64 bit systems. To have a stable code base besides the changes in the reposi

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-10-07 Thread Carsten Kunze
Blake McBride wrote: > Wow. That did fix the problem. Can't find any documentation on it. It is documented in the tbl man page. The line drawing commands had been introduced for pic (AFAIK). That may be the reason that \l \L is used instead of \D'l ...'. Or that \l \L also work with nroff.

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-10-06 Thread Blake McBride
Wow. That did fix the problem. Can't find any documentation on it. What about lines in troff? Thanks! Blake On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Carsten Kunze wrote: > Blake McBride wrote: > > > Documents with tables look kind of ugly and out-of-date on the screen. > > Please try tbl with opt

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-28 Thread Carsten Kunze
Blake McBride wrote: > Documents with tables look kind of ugly and out-of-date on the screen. Please try tbl with option "-g". The lines should be continuous then. Carsten

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-25 Thread Carsten Kunze
Ralph Corderoy wrote: > > It looks broken into dashes on the PDF for me. > > Different PDF viewers show it differently IME. And zoom level matters > too. Here with evince, > > A\(em\h'-\w'\(em'/2'\(emB > A\(em\(emB > > shows as darker on the overlap with the first line, and also very >

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-25 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Blake, > Carsten wrote: > > Have you tested that with PDF? If I magnify it I see a continous > > line. > > It looks broken into dashes on the PDF for me. Different PDF viewers show it differently IME. And zoom level matters too. Here with evince, A\(em\h'-\w'\(em'/2'\(emB A\(em\(e

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-24 Thread Blake McBride
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Carsten Kunze wrote: > Blake McBride wrote: > > > Also, how does groff get around the problem? > > groff may use a true line where ditroff may use the "_" and "|" characters. > > > Given that most documents are probably viewed via screen these days, and > > the u

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-24 Thread Carsten Kunze
Blake McBride wrote: > Also, how does groff get around the problem? groff may use a true line where ditroff may use the "_" and "|" characters. > Given that most documents are probably viewed via screen these days, and > the ugliness of the dashes, I'd think this is important to fix. Have you

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-24 Thread Blake McBride
Thanks for the input. I'm traveling right now and don't have access to a printer. I'll check when I get back. Also, how does groff get around the problem? Given that most documents are probably viewed via screen these days, and the ugliness of the dashes, I'd think this is important to fix. Th

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-24 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Blake, > The same is also true with vertical lines with heirloom tbl. A series > of small lines is produces rather than a single line. This seems familiar from long ago. Could it be that if they were ink on paper then they would overlap and join up, but when viewing them on a screen with ant

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-24 Thread Blake McBride
The same is also true with vertical lines with heirloom tbl. A series of small lines is produces rather than a single line. On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Blake McBride wrote: > This is true of =, \_, and \= too. > > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Blake McBride > wrote: > >> Greetings

Re: [Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-24 Thread Blake McBride
This is true of =, \_, and \= too. On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Blake McBride wrote: > Greetings, > > Using the following: > > .TS > l . > _ > abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz > .TE > > > In groff, the line is unbroken (as is desired). In heirloom, a bunch of > dashes are produced. Each dash i

[Groff] [heirloom] getting dashes when a line is requested

2014-09-24 Thread Blake McBride
Greetings, Using the following: .TS l . _ abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz .TE In groff, the line is unbroken (as is desired). In heirloom, a bunch of dashes are produced. Each dash is separated by a small space. In other words, groff produced a _line_, and heirloom troff produces a _series of das

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] bug in '.if' string comparison tests

2014-09-04 Thread Pierre-Jean
Ralph Corderoy wrote: > See ascii(7), as others have said, and 10.1 in http://troff.org/54.pdf > around where it says I should probably stop skim through this document to look for command definition, and start reading it from the begin to the end... :) Thanks ! Pierre-Jean.

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] bug in '.if' string comparison tests

2014-09-04 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Pierre-Jean, > I've recently seen the usage of the ^G character as field separator. > That is a good idea, since it should avoid most possible conflicts > with user input. But does anyone know what does this character means, > and why does it seems to be prefered to other control characters ?

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] bug in '.if' string comparison tests

2014-09-03 Thread Carsten Kunze
> .do xflag 3 > .if "A"A" .tm A is like A > .if ^GB^GB^GB .tm B is like B > .char " "\| > .if "A"A" .tm A is like A > .if ^GB^GB^GB .tm B is like B > > Output "A is like A" and "B is like B" only once. It is fixed on GitHub now. Thanx for the bug report.

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] bug in '.if' string comparison tests

2014-09-03 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Output "A is like A" and "B is like B" only once. You mean, only once on the terminal? Do you get any text in the output file?

Re: [Groff] [Heirloom] bug in '.if' string comparison tests

2014-09-03 Thread Carsten Kunze
> .do xflag 3 > .if "A"A" .tm A is like A > .if ^GB^GB^GB .tm B is like B > .char " "\| > .if "A"A" .tm A is like A > .if ^GB^GB^GB .tm B is like B Sorry, I didn't notice the |. You're right, there is a problem.

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