Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Leo, Leo Prikler writes: > Am Montag, den 03.05.2021, 05:00 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: >> Leo Prikler writes: >> >> > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 23:13 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: >> > > I don't think I fumbled on the facts at all. It's true that I >> > > didn't yet have _all_ of the re

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Mark, Am Montag, den 03.05.2021, 05:00 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: > Leo Prikler writes: > > > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 23:13 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: > > > I don't think I fumbled on the facts at all. It's true that I > > > didn't > > > yet have _all_ of the relevant facts, but as f

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Leo, I think we're mostly going in circles at this point, so I think we should finish up this conversation, as Ludovic suggested. I'll let you have the last word on most of our conversation threads, but I feel compelled to briefly counter one claim of yours: Leo Prikler writes: > Am Samstag

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Mark, Am Sonntag, den 02.05.2021, 17:02 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: > Hi Leo, > > Leo Prikler writes: > > > Am Sonntag, den 02.05.2021, 15:29 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: > > > > Likewise, there's no middle ground on assuming evil > > intentions, you either assume they exist or you don't.

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Ludovic, Ludovic Courtès writes: > I’m sorry to inform you that this is not a philosophy or linguistics > mailing list. *lol* Indeed, this conversation has wandered quite far off-topic. Thanks for stepping in. > I invite you to continue this discussion off-list. We have a release > coming

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Leo, Leo Prikler writes: > Am Sonntag, den 02.05.2021, 15:29 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: >> >> Leo Prikler writes: >> >> > Let us assume for the sake of argument I were to introduce a bug >> > into Guix. There are a number of ways this can happen, but let's >> > focus on the important di

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Leo, Mark, Mark H Weaver skribis: > This is a false dilemma , > because you've missed a very important case, namely: > > 5. You assume *nothing*. I’m sorry to inform you that this is not a philosophy or linguistics mailing list. I invite you to cont

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Mark, Am Sonntag, den 02.05.2021, 15:29 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: > Hi Leo, > > Leo Prikler writes: > > > Let us assume for > > the sake of argument I were to introduce a bug into Guix. There > > are a > > number of ways this can happen, but let's focus on the important > > distinction h

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Leo, Leo Prikler writes: > Let us assume for > the sake of argument I were to introduce a bug into Guix. There are a > number of ways this can happen, but let's focus on the important > distinction here, which is me purposefully introducing that bug vs. it > happening due to oversight. > > L

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Am Sonntag, den 02.05.2021, 12:17 +0800 schrieb 宋文武: > Hello Leo, I see nothing wrong for assuming bad faith when security > fixes of packages are removed, in the end the truth matter, which I > believe is: You thought the patches for cario is not needed now on > core-updates, so you remove them.

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 23:13 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: > Hi Leo, > > I took the liberty of refilling the quotations in your email to make > them more readable. Please do. > > Leo Prikler writes: > > > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 18:12 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: > > > Can you please po

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Leo Famulari writes: > [...] > To clarify, Leo Prikler is not the same person that was involved in > removing the Cairo bug fixes. That was a different person, also named > Leo. > > Not me, either :) Um, my bad, thank you!

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

On Sun, May 02, 2021 at 12:17:59PM +0800, 宋文武 wrote: > Hello Leo, I see nothing wrong for assuming bad faith when security > fixes of packages are removed, in the end the truth matter, which I > believe is: You thought the patches for cario is not needed now on > core-updates, so you remove them. >

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

宋文武 writes: > Leo Prikler writes: > >> Hi Mark, >> >> Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 18:12 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: >>> Hi Leo, >>> >>> Leo Prikler writes: >>> >>> > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 19:02 +0200 schrieb Giovanni Biscuolo: >>> > > I also spent some time re-reading messages that Mar

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Leo Prikler writes: > Hi Mark, > > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 18:12 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: >> Hi Leo, >> >> Leo Prikler writes: >> >> > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 19:02 +0200 schrieb Giovanni Biscuolo: >> > > I also spent some time re-reading messages that Mark sent in this >> > > thre

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Leo, I took the liberty of refilling the quotations in your email to make them more readable. Leo Prikler writes: > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 18:12 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: >> Can you please point out which of my words led you to conclude that I >> was assuming bad faith? > > I am basi

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Mark, Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 18:12 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: > Hi Leo, > > Leo Prikler writes: > > > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 19:02 +0200 schrieb Giovanni Biscuolo: > > > I also spent some time re-reading messages that Mark sent in this > > > thread and, like him, I really don't u

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Mark H Weaver writes: > Leo Prikler writes: > >> Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 19:02 +0200 schrieb Giovanni Biscuolo: >>> If you want you can consider Mark used an /harsh/ tone but this is a >>> personal feeling, something one /could/ read "between the lines" even >>> if actually in a written comm

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hi Leo, Leo Prikler writes: > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 19:02 +0200 schrieb Giovanni Biscuolo: >> I also spent some time re-reading messages that Mark sent in this >> thread and, like him, I really don't understand what Mark did wrong. >> >> For sure Mark /insisted/ that Raghav and Léo did so

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hello Giovanni, I am not Mark or Ludo, but as a /generic other/, I'd still like to reply. Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 19:02 +0200 schrieb Giovanni Biscuolo: > Hello Mark and Ludovic, > > please forgive me if I'm going forward with this thread but, after > some > hesitation, I decided to write th

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hello Mark and Ludovic, please forgive me if I'm going forward with this thread but, after some hesitation, I decided to write this message because I /feel/ we could do better in dealing with issues like this one. Please when you'll read "you" consider it a /generic you/ ("you the reader") not Ma

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

On 4/28/21 12:43 PM, Mark H Weaver wrote: > I'm sorry if this comes off as obtuse, but having now re-read all of my > messages in this thread, I honestly do not see what I did wrong here. > I will need some help to understand. please save it

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Hello! In Guix i feel there's a precious source that's enriching my experience: mutualism There's a lot of building together, of helping each other out. It's a refreshing opportunity to see how positive cooperation brings a lot of good energy. Have a Happy Thursday! Matias

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

On Wed, 2021-04-28 at 12:43 -0400, Mark H Weaver wrote: > I'm sorry if this comes off as obtuse, but having now re-read all of > my > messages in this thread, I honestly do not see what I did wrong here. > I will need some help to understand. > > With very few exceptions, almost every sentence tha

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

If you'll allow me to comment Mark, I would say that I valued your commitment to discover how to avoid a repeat of the problem. It is nice to see someone truly care about a project and insist a problem does not repeat itself. In practical terms, putting a few smiley faces in emails probably hel

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

Dear Leo, On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 01:55:25PM -0400, Leo Famulari wrote: > You should have sent a message that explained the problem and tried to > teach the solution. I've seen you do it many times before; That is perhaps fair comment. It is always best to be constructive and not too personal. T

Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes)

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 12:43:53PM -0400, Mark H Weaver wrote: > I'm sorry if this comes off as obtuse, but having now re-read all of my > messages in this thread, I honestly do not see what I did wrong here. > I will need some help to understand. It's common advice that managers and leaders shoul