>
> it's clear that FP ideas are becoming mainstream
>_without_ any need of help from the financial community
>
This is far from clear - unless you want to deny that the financial community
has had any impact on FP...
> due to Objective C with its Smalltalk influence
...and it's interesting to
New technologies are usually introduced by smart people who have the vision,
and drive to communicate the benefits of doing it differently and usually
better to their peers, and seniors.
Few senior IT people will have any FP knowledge, or maybe exposure to the
mathematical or CS fundamentals
On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:30 PM, Ketil Malde wrote:
> Sure, if the premise is that investment banks (or the military) are evil,
> then it is morally questionable to support them. If these are the
> major consumers of functional programming, one might question the ethics
> of working on FP in general
> Investment banking isn't likely to lead to improvements in zygohistomorphic
> prepromorphisms.
Given that an investment bank could (purely hypothetically of course ;-)
use - say - paramorphisms as their fundamental approach to processing a
deeply-embedded DSEL, I wouldn't be too quick to
On 11 Aug 2010, at 08:30, Ketil Malde wrote:
ng on FP in general as well.
But as I interpreted this thread, the premise was not about the
morality
of specific sectors, but rather that finance "takes away" too much of
the FP talent. My opinion is that we should rather appreciate
business
Henning Thielemann writes:
> about functional programming jobs in investment banking ...
>> I don't think this is bad: having talented people recruited to work
>> on functional programming will improve the technology for all of us.
> I'm not sure I follow this opinion in general. Analogously I
Henning Thielemann wrote:
about functional programming jobs in investment banking ...
Ketil Malde schrieb:
Tom Hawkins writes:
(Yes, I realize that's were the money is [...])
Exactly.
I don't think this is bad: having talented people recruited to work
on functional programming will improv
about functional programming jobs in investment banking ...
Ketil Malde schrieb:
> Tom Hawkins writes:
>> (Yes, I realize that's were the money is [...])
>
> Exactly.
>
> I don't think this is bad: having talented people recruited to work
> on functional programming will improve the technology
The former.
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic
wrote:
> Lennart Augustsson writes:
>
>> Rather than high turnover it indicates (in my experience) that it's
>> difficult to fill positions in finance.
>> That's one reason they are advertised repeatedly.
>
> Because you can't fi
Lennart Augustsson writes:
> Rather than high turnover it indicates (in my experience) that it's
> difficult to fill positions in finance.
> That's one reason they are advertised repeatedly.
Because you can't find people that are good enough (in terms of required
skill sets, etc.) or because no-
Rather than high turnover it indicates (in my experience) that it's
difficult to fill positions in finance.
That's one reason they are advertised repeatedly.
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic
wrote:
> Malcolm Wallace writes:
>
It's disproportionate. 95% of the job off
Malcolm Wallace writes:
>>> It's disproportionate. 95% of the job offerings in functional
>>> programming are with investment firms.
>
> I'm not sure that is really true. You might see more adverts for
> financial jobs, but often those jobs may be advertised multiple times,
> because different
It's disproportionate. 95% of the job offerings in functional
programming are with investment firms.
I'm not sure that is really true. You might see more adverts for
financial jobs, but often those jobs may be advertised multiple times,
because different headhunters see an opportunity to e
Tom Hawkins writes:
>> Second, I would like to know what exactly is bad about a Haskell
>> job in investment banking as a lot of good programmers work in this
>> industry.
> It's disproportionate. 95% of the job offerings in functional
> programming are with investment firms. I believe investm
Of course Banks/Financial Firms/Investment Banks want software that is
correct, secure, and logs transactions.
Aspects are great for cross-cutting concerns like security and
logging; as in AspectJ.
For correctness, functional programming has that.
With monads its easy to add logging and security
Remember that Banks/Financial Firms/Investment Banks were among the first big
uses of punch card readers, mainframes, cobol, C, C++ (and OOP), VBA, Java..
I'm not saying if I like any of those languages (my presence on this list
should give a clue how I feel) but investment banks picking up FP
>
> Yes. I find that out of 10 people I train, only about 2 pick it up
> and run with it. I'm starting to believe you are either wired for
> functional programming, or you're not.
>
> I disagree that only certain brains are wired for FP. I think your
experience can be explained by people's inabil
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Lennart Augustsson
wrote:
> But do you think there would be more Haskell jobs offered (in absolute
> terms), if no investment firms offered jobs?
> Is there some kind of quota of job offers that gets used up?
No and no. Again, I think it's awesome an industry as
But do you think there would be more Haskell jobs offered (in absolute
terms), if no investment firms offered jobs?
Is there some kind of quota of job offers that gets used up?
There seems to be more job applicants that job offers at the moment,
so I'm not sure what the problem is.
On Mon, Aug 9,
Out of 10 people trained only 2 should do programming anyway. :)
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 4:58 AM, Tom Hawkins wrote:
> Hi Eil,
>> Have you had any trouble training people to use Haskell?
>
> Yes. I find that out of 10 people I train, only about 2 pick it up
> and run with it. I'm starting to bel
> Good, we need more functional programmers actually solving real
> problems. But please put your skills to work in an industry other
> than investment banking.
I've received a lot mail on this comment; mostly positive. Here's one
from someone who wishes to remain anonymous:
> First of all I wo
> Yes. I find that out of 10 people I train, only about 2 pick it up
> and run with it. I'm starting to believe you are either wired for
> functional programming, or you're not.
Couldn't agree more. This is the usual conclusion I arrive at when I
find myself wondering why so many very intelligen
>> Good, we need more functional programmers actually solving real
>> problems. But please put your skills to work in an industry other
>> than investment banking.
There are lots of companies outside of investment-banking using
functional programming.
Bluespec, Galois, TypLab, are all serious Ha
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:58:15 -0500
Tom Hawkins wrote:
> Good, we need more functional programmers actually solving real
> problems. But please put your skills to work in an industry other
> than investment banking.
+1000
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H
Hi Eil,
Sorry, your email got lost in my inbox. I hope you don't mind me
copying haskell-cafe.
> I saw a video of a presentation you gave at CUFP awhile back and was
> hoping to ask you a couple of questions.
> I'm currently a junior at UT Dallas and trying to figure out what I'm
> going to do
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