Re: bugs from n+k patterns (was: Re: Preventing/handling space leaks)

2003-12-12 Thread Henk-Jan van Tuyl
L.S., On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:23:51 -0800, Iavor S. Diatchki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : : Henk-Jan van Tuyl wrote: 1) It takes no effort, once you are use to it, to code without n+k patterns; this does not seem like a good argument. there are many other features like that in haskell. for

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-11 Thread Henk-Jan van Tuyl
L.S., On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:49:54 -0800, Iavor S. Diatchki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello, Henk-Jan van Tuyl wrote: : : So far I have seen only one rule for Good Coding Practice in Haskell: Do Not Use n+k Patterns. I hope someone can give some directions, how to avoid known pitfalls

bugs from n+k patterns (was: Re: Preventing/handling space leaks)

2003-12-11 Thread Iavor S. Diatchki
hi, first here is why i think n+k patterns are problematic; 1) they lead to some parsing awkwardness (e.g. when n+k pattern bindings are involved, but those don'treally make much sense anyways) 2) in haskell as it is, patterns are associated with algebraic datatypes, and n+k patterns may

Re: bugs from n+k patterns (was: Re: Preventing/handling space leaks)

2003-12-11 Thread Derek Elkins
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:23:51 -0800 Iavor S. Diatchki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Henk-Jan van Tuyl wrote: ... 2) It is likely, that n+k patterns dissapear in the next Haskell standard. If you don't like to rewrite, test and debug all your software every few years, don't use any

Re: bugs from n+k patterns (was: Re: Preventing/handling space leaks)

2003-12-11 Thread John Peterson
The n+k pattern issue inspired endless debates on the Haskell committee and this feature was considered for removal in nearly every iteration of the Haskell report. We all agreed that n+k is extremely ad-hoc but that certain programs can be expressed slightly more elegantly using them.

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-10 Thread Henk-Jan van Tuyl
L.S., On 07 Dec 2003 22:53:45 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henk-Jan.van.Tuyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: L.S., (Whom?) L.S. :: Abbreviation a = Latin a L.S. = Lectoribus Salutem -- Readers be greated Does anyone know about documentation (preferably on the Web) on how to prevent/find/remove

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-10 Thread Iavor S. Diatchki
hello, Henk-Jan van Tuyl wrote: I have spent most of the six years with my former employer coding in C and some time in Java (and other languages) and had never any trouble with space leaks; mainly because I strictly followed some rules for Good Coding Practice (never use gotos, only one

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-10 Thread ajb
G'day all. Quoting Henk-Jan van Tuyl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So far I have seen only one rule for Good Coding Practice in Haskell: Do Not Use n+k Patterns. I hope someone can give some directions, how to avoid known pitfalls (especially Space Leaks). Here are a few rules of thumb: - Know

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-09 Thread Fergus Henderson
On 08-Dec-2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day all. Quoting Sven Panne [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Granted, C++'s (copy) constructors, destructors and assignment operators make some things relatively easy compared to C, but the complexity of handling exceptions *correctly*

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-09 Thread Gabriel Dos Reis
Fergus Henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | Even the C++ standard library itself, which has been | subject to review by the world's best C++ experts, suffers | from exception safety problems. A new exception safety | problem with std::auto_ptr was discovered just last Friday! See |

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-09 Thread ajb
G'day all. Quoting Gabriel Dos Reis [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think it is fair to characterize auto_ptr as a curiously broken class since its conception and design. I also think that's a fair characterisation. std::auto_ptr has always struck me as a fairly brittle abstraction. Learning that it

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-08 Thread Sven Panne
[ Just one more mail and I promise to shut up on this topic... :-) ] Fergus Henderson wrote: [...] C does suffer from many of the same problems as C. But in C++, it is much easier to automate techniques like reference counting, which can be done manually in C but are much more cumbersome and

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-08 Thread ketil+haskell
Sven Panne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [ Just one more mail and I promise to shut up on this topic... :-) ] Surely slamming C++ is on topic? :-) Fergus Henderson wrote: [...] C does suffer from many of the same problems as C. But in C++, it is much easier to automate techniques like

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-08 Thread ajb
G'day all. Quoting Sven Panne [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Granted, C++'s (copy) constructors, destructors and assignment operators make some things relatively easy compared to C, but the complexity of handling exceptions *correctly* makes things worse again: There is a famous article (I can't

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-07 Thread ketil+haskell
Henk-Jan.van.Tuyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: L.S., (Whom?) Does anyone know about documentation (preferably on the Web) on how to prevent/find/remove space leaks? Are there any differences between Hugs and GHC or any other Haskell platform, regarding space leaks? I should probably invest

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-07 Thread Fergus Henderson
On 06-Dec-2003, Sven Panne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henk-Jan.van.Tuyl wrote: [...] it looks to me, that the problem of space leaks is a very good reason to not use Haskell for commercial applications. Java, for example, does not have this problem. I just can't resist when I read PR

Re: Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-06 Thread Sven Panne
Henk-Jan.van.Tuyl wrote: [...] it looks to me, that the problem of space leaks is a very good reason to not use Haskell for commercial applications. Java, for example, does not have this problem. I just can't resist when I read PR statements like this (SUN's marketing department has *really* done

Preventing/handling space leaks

2003-12-05 Thread Henk-Jan.van.Tuyl
L.S., Does anyone know about documentation (preferably on the Web) on how to prevent/find/remove space leaks? Are there any differences between Hugs and GHC or any other Haskell platform, regarding space leaks? I read some discussions about why not everybody uses Haskell; it looks to me, that