Well, I know I for one am not especially surprised as I think there have been some hints that this was coming for a while now, but thank you for the really detailed and clear notice about the future status of Heka. It's interesting to hear what the pain points have been.
"Yuge" thanks to everyone who's worked to make Heka what it is; even with the flaws you described, it's enormously useful and pleasant to work with. You certainly have my vote of confidence for doing really solid data engineering work, and I look forward to seeing what comes next! To that end, thanks also for the preview of what's coming up for Hindsight, Trink; we'll definitely be testing Hindsight out in the coming months. Being able to build more of the pipeline in Lua is certainly an attractive reason to switch :). Regards, Nathan W On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 3:05 PM Michael Trinkala <mtrink...@mozilla.com> wrote: > Please don't mistake the small size of the documentation as it being > incomplete. What is there is a full reference to the current functionality. > Its small size (when compared to the Heka documentation) is due to the > reduction of complexity in it's design (Hindsight is just a skeleton around > the Heka sandbox (documented separately)). As for the configuration > examples, I actually only use a single single standard HS configuration > everywhere (home and Mozilla) I will add it to the docs. The core Hindsight > configuration needs very little tweaking but the options are fully > documented and provide flexibility down to tying/grouping plugins to a > specific thread of execution. > > The bulk of the configuration work comes with the specific individual > plugins being used, of which, each has its own embedded documentation. I > have a bug to turn this into something more browsing friendly > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1261067 but the > documentation already exists. If something is missing, unclear, or > confusing please file an issue and we will get it taken care of. This > quarter will consist of a lot of last mile work: packaging, migration of > some lua code out of Heka and into lua_sandbox, the final review and > release of the 1.0 APIs (for the lua_sandbox and all the modules we > provide) etc.. > > As for the mailing list, Hindsight conversations have been happening here > as they are low volume and most relate to the Heka sandbox (we will > re-evaluate this as needed). > Thanks, > Trink > > On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 5:38 AM, Mathieu Parent <math.par...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Rob, >> >> Thanks for those info about the future of Heka. >> >> You're seeking help to keep heka alive, but what about Hindsight? >> >> It has currently no mailing list, the docs are minimal, and there are >> no configuration examples (except the benchmarks dir). Any plan to >> improve this? Heka's doc is one of its "selling" points. >> >> Regards >> >> >> 2016-05-06 19:51 GMT+02:00 Rob Miller <rmil...@mozilla.com>: >> > Hi everyone, >> > >> > I'm loooong overdue in sending out an update about the current state of >> and >> > plans for Heka. Unfortunately, what I have to share here will probably >> be >> > disappointing for many of you, and it might impact whether or not you >> want >> > to continue using it, as all signs point to Heka getting less support >> and >> > fewer updates moving forward. >> > >> > The short version is that Heka has some design flaws that make it hard >> to >> > incrementally improve it enough to meet the high throughput and >> reliability >> > goals that we were hoping to achieve. While it would be possible to do a >> > major overhaul of the code to resolve most of these issues, I don't >> have the >> > personal bandwidth to do that work, since most of my time is consumed >> > working on Mozilla's immediate data processing needs rather than general >> > purpose tools these days. Hindsight (https://github.com/trink/hindsight >> ), >> > built around the same Lua sandbox technology as Heka, doesn't have these >> > issues, and internally we're using it more and more instead of Heka, so >> > there's no organizational imperative for me (or anyone else) to spend >> the >> > time required to overhaul the Go code base. >> > >> > Heka is still in use here, though, especially on our edge nodes, so it >> will >> > see a bit more improvement and at least a couple more releases. Most >> > notably, it's on my list to switch to using the most recent Lua sandbox >> > code, which will move most of the protobuf processing to custom C code, >> and >> > will likely improve performance as well as remove a lot of the >> problematic >> > cgo code, which is what's currently keeping us from being able to >> upgrade to >> > a recent Go version. >> > >> > Beyond that, however, Heka's future is uncertain. The code that's there >> will >> > still work, of course, but I may not be doing any further improvements, >> and >> > my ability to keep up with support requests and PRs, already on the >> decline, >> > will likely continue to wane. >> > >> > So what are the options? If you're using a significant amount of Lua >> based >> > functionality, you might consider transitioning to Hindsight. Any Lua >> code >> > that works in Heka will work in Hindsight. Hindsight is a much leaner >> and >> > more solid foundation. Hindsight has far fewer i/o plugins than Heka, >> > though, so for many it won't be a simple transition. >> > >> > Also, if there's someone out there (an organization, most likely) that >> has a >> > strong interest in keeping Heka's codebase alive, through funding or >> coding >> > contributions, I'd be happy to support that endeavor. Some restrictions >> > apply, however; the work that needs to be done to improve Heka's >> foundation >> > is not beginner level work, and my time to help is very limited, so I'm >> only >> > willing to support folks who demonstrate that they are up to the task. >> > Please contact me off-list if you or your organization is interested. >> > >> > Anyone casually following along can probably stop reading here. Those >> of you >> > interested in the gory details can read on to hear more about what the >> > issues are and how they might be resolved. >> > >> > First, I'll say that I think there's a lot that Heka got right. The >> basic >> > composition of the pipeline (input -> split -> decode -> route -> >> process -> >> > encode -> output) seems to hit a sweet spot for composability and >> reuse. The >> > Lua sandbox, and especially the use of LPEG for text parsing and >> > transformation, has proven to be extremely efficient and powerful; it's >> the >> > most important and valuable part of the Heka stack. The routing >> > infrastructure is efficient and solid. And, perhaps most importantly, >> Heka >> > is useful; there are a lot of you out there using it to get work done. >> > >> > There was one fundamental mistake made, however, which is that we >> shouldn't >> > have used channels. There are many competing opinions about Go >> channels. I'm >> > not going to get in to whether or not they're *ever* a good idea, but I >> will >> > say unequivocally that their use as the means of pushing messages >> through >> > the Heka pipeline was a mistake, for a number of reasons. >> > >> > First, they don't perform well enough. While Heka performs many tasks >> faster >> > than some other popular tools, we've consistently hit a throughput >> ceiling >> > thanks to all of the synchronization that channels require. And this >> > ceiling, sadly, is generally lower than is acceptable for the amount of >> data >> > that we at Mozilla want to push through our aggregators single system. >> > >> > Second, they make it very hard to prevent message loss. If unbuffered >> > channels are used everywhere, performance plummets unacceptably due to >> > context-switching costs. But using buffered channels means that many >> > messages are in flight at a time, most of which are sitting in channels >> > waiting to be processed. Keeping track of which messages have made it >> all >> > the way through the pipeline requires complicated coordination between >> > chunks of code that are conceptually quite far away from each other. >> > >> > Third, the buffered channels mean that Heka consumes much more RAM than >> > would be otherwise needed, since we have to pre-allocate a pool of >> messages. >> > If the pool size is too small, then Heka becomes susceptible to >> deadlocks, >> > with all of the available packs sitting in channel queues, unable to be >> > processed because some plugin is blocked on waiting for an available >> pack. >> > But cranking up the pool size causes Heka to use more memory, even when >> it's >> > idle. >> > >> > Hindsight avoids all of these problems by using disk queues instead of >> RAM >> > buffers between all of the processing stages. It's a bit >> counterintuitive, >> > but at high throughput performance is actually better than with RAM >> buffers, >> > because a) there's no need for synchronization locks and b) the data is >> > typically read quickly enough after it's written that it stays in the >> disk >> > cache. >> > >> > There's much less chance of message loss, because every plugin is >> holding on >> > to only one message in memory at a time, while using a written-to-disk >> > cursor file to track the current position in the disk buffer. If the >> plug is >> > pulled mid-process, some messages that were already processed might be >> > processed again, but nothing will be lost, and there's no need for >> complex >> > coordination between different stages of the pipeline. >> > >> > Finally, there's no need for a pool of messages. Each plugin is holding >> some >> > small number of packs (possibly as few as one) in its own memory space, >> and >> > those packs never escape that plugin's ownership. RAM usage doesn't >> grow, >> > and pool exhaustion related deadlocks are a thing of the past. >> > >> > For Heka to have a viable future, it would basically need to be updated >> to >> > work almost exactly like Hindsight. First, all of the APIs would need >> to be >> > changed to no longer refer to channels. (The fact that we exposed >> channels >> > to the APIs is another mistake we made... it's now generally frowned >> upon in >> > Go land to expose channels as part of your public APIs.) There's >> already a >> > non-channel based API for filters and outputs, but most of the plugins >> > haven't yet been updated to use the new API, which would need to happen. >> > >> > Then the hard work would start; a major overhaul of Heka's internals, to >> > switch from channel based message passing to disk queue based message >> > passing. The work that's been done to support disk buffering for >> filters and >> > outputs is useful, but not quite enough, because it's not scalable for >> each >> > plugin to have its own queue; the number of open file descriptors would >> grow >> > very quickly. Instead it would need to work like Hindsight, where >> there's >> > one queue that all of the inputs write to, and another that filters >> write >> > to. Each plugin reads through its specified input queue, looking for >> > messages that match its message matcher, writing its location in the >> queue >> > back to the shared cursors file. >> > >> > There would also be some complexity in reconciling Heka's breakdown of >> the >> > input stage into input/splitter/decoder with Hindsight's encapsulation >> of >> > all of these stages into a single sandbox. >> > >> > Ultimately I think this would be at least 2-3 months full time work for >> me. >> > I'm not the fastest coder around, but I know where the bodies are >> buried, so >> > I'd guess it would take anyone else at least as long, possibly longer if >> > they're not already familiar with how everything is put together. >> > >> > And that's about it. If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading. >> Also, >> > thanks to everyone who's contributed to Heka in any way, be it by code, >> doc >> > fixes, bug reports, or even just appreciation. I'm sorry for those of >> you >> > using it regularly that there's not a more stable future. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > -r >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Heka mailing list >> > Heka@mozilla.org >> > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/heka >> >> >> >> -- >> Mathieu >> _______________________________________________ >> Heka mailing list >> Heka@mozilla.org >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/heka >> > > _______________________________________________ > Heka mailing list > Heka@mozilla.org > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/heka >
_______________________________________________ Heka mailing list Heka@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/heka
